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click tracks

sedan_dad

sedan_dad

Feb 5, 2006
3,270
1,516
Columbus,Ohio
#1
I've seen set lists that not only has the key on them but also the tempo listed .
Such as 120bmp or 77 bpm.( The Rolling Stones do this)
I assume everyone works off a click track in this instance.
This interests me.
How does this work in real life?
Is everyone fed a common click track by off stage help or what?
This is great idea.
Nothing worse than a tired drummer starting out too slow.
 
#2
Tama makes a drummer's metronome for about $100 with a 30 position memory for tempi and even beats. It mounts on a cymbal stand with some extra hardware (not included). It can be used for getting the right tempo, or for having a click fed to the drummer for the whole tune.

I have had some experience with clicks and don't mind them in the studio, but live they seem like overkill (IMHO).

Once I was in a large horn band that had lost a drummer who played so solidly it was amazing. Lot's of our tunes were composites with changes of tempo and feel.

One drummer we auditioned insisted on using a click. He actually pretty much irritated everyone by refusing to play without it, and didn't land the gig.

Still, I can see having something to be sure the count off is the right tempo.
 
#8
My band has a click simply because we "have to".
Backingtracks, symphonic elements and samples require we keep a stable pace so samples and symphonic melodies don't go out of sync.

So we have a minidisc system running a stereo signal.
Left signal contains full clicktracks for all songs we play (including 8 "starting" clicks) routed to the drummers headphones.
Right contains our samples and symphonics routed through to the PA.
 
#9
I never used a clicktrack live nor have I ever noted the tempo on the setlist in bpm, but I once added a column for how I felt the tempo of the songs (one asterisk " * " meant a really slow ballad, " ***** " meant the most up-tempo song we had). This was very useful when compiling the setlist. However, the other band members laughed at it... :hmm:
 
#10
The live click thing can be very useful, but it certainly depends on the type of music being played. I've worked with two drummers that used clicks, one on a blues gig (why??) and another in a kind of songwriter/country/70's thing and in both situations the music sucked for two reasons. First off, they were always chasing the time and their grooves never settled in. Second, both of those situations did not require impeccable time - the music wanted to breathe and be a little loose and the click thing really just got in the way. Fortunately I was a hired gun for both those acts and was able to keep away thereafter.

In my trio we have a couple of tunes that have samples and/or beats in conjunction with the real drums. Our drummer has everything set up on computer, and runs the click to himself only. We have no problems whatsoever and it rocks pretty hard! I must say I was very skeptical at first, but he is so good at keeping his feel natural and relaxed I would never know those shenanigans were going on back there if I were blind.
 
#11
This is sort of a "philosophical" question, but-

I see a band as a group of people working together. Wouldn't the click track take away some wiggle room? How does this work with improvisation? Wouldn't a click track confine the band?

I have never worked with a click track in performance. I practice with a metronome every day. I have used a click track in the studio... but never live. I am not against it... heck, I will try anything once... but I think I would find it confining.

Here is a technical question: I don't have in-ear monitors. How would I get the click track? Stage monitor? I like the little light idea...
 
#12
svenbass said:
The live click thing can be very useful, but it certainly depends on the type of music being played. I've worked with two drummers that used clicks, one on a blues gig (why??) and another in a kind of songwriter/country/70's thing and in both situations the music sucked for two reasons. First off, they were always chasing the time and their grooves never settled in. Second, both of those situations did not require impeccable time - the music wanted to breathe and be a little loose and the click thing really just got in the way. Fortunately I was a hired gun for both those acts and was able to keep away thereafter.

In my trio we have a couple of tunes that have samples and/or beats in conjunction with the real drums. Our drummer has everything set up on computer, and runs the click to himself only. We have no problems whatsoever and it rocks pretty hard! I must say I was very skeptical at first, but he is so good at keeping his feel natural and relaxed I would never know those shenanigans were going on back there if I were blind.
Click to expand...

Using a click track has its advantages, but if overused, it can easily become a crutch. For synchronizing with samples or beats - whether in studio or in a live setting - it has its place. It can facilitate punch-ins and editing when recording. And possibly as a reminder to the drummer for establishing the correct tempo. Other than that, everyone in the band - including the drummer - should be able to keep the tempo. If not, there are some deficiencies in musicianship that using a click track won't resolve... :hmm:

MM
 
#13
MysticMichael said:
Using a click track has its advantages, but if overused, it can easily become a crutch. For synchronizing with samples or beats - whether in studio or in a live setting - it has its place. It can facilitate punch-ins and editing when recording. And possibly as a reminder to the drummer for establishing the correct tempo. Other than that, everyone in the band - including the drummer - should be able to keep the tempo. If not, there are some deficiencies in musicianship that using a click track won't resolve... :hmm:

MM
Click to expand...

Well said MM!

I have seen a trend in bands/drummers using clicks in situations that in MHO don't need it (no samples, loops, video synch, etc..) but perhaps feel that they do need Quartz Precision. To me that's unfortunate, as I see music as a living, breathing entity, and am from the school of thought that if a tune needs to go somewhere tempo-wise to make it feel right then that's fine.... I'm not talking about poor playing (rushing, dragging) but collective adjustments to get the pocket nice 'n deep. Some of my favorite jazz records have some significant shifts in tempo, but they sure feel great!!
 
#14
Funny how some people refer to using a click as inferior...I was at the studio this weekend and we had to use a click (obviously) to track our scratch recordings. I must say we had a harder time staying with the click than just playing with the drummer...our drummer actually had the hardest time with it...

Anyone who uses a click in a live performance situation - hats off!
 
#15
svenbass said:
To me that's unfortunate, as I see music as a living, breathing entity, and am from the school of thought that if a tune needs to go somewhere tempo-wise to make it feel right then that's fine.... I'm not talking about poor playing (rushing, dragging) but collective adjustments to get the pocket nice 'n deep. Some of my favorite jazz records have some significant shifts in tempo, but they sure feel great!!
Click to expand...

I agree, Sven... :cool:

MM
 
#16
Yeah, I wouldn't use a click in a singer-songwriter band, or one where there was a lot of improvisation. I like "breathing" music too and sometimes a lot of CDs I hear nowadays sound so quantized that it seems like it doesn't even have a groove.

A click is like anything else (slapping, seven-string basses, three guitarists in a single band) it can be useful or it can be utterly unnecessary. I do record with a click simply because it facilitates putting the music together better, but the drummer in my other band is real good about using it as a place-keeper and playing around it instead of just with it.
 
#17
Click in the studio is vital. In a live performance I think it would almost always step on the groove.

We have set tempos for almost all our songs, or even two when there is a change for the bridge or something. Do we always follow these exactly? No way. But at rehearsal we set the exact bpm before each song so we're most comfortable in (or near) the correct tempo when we perform.
 
#18
Stepping on the "groove" is a bit strange if a song is set to a certain speed and it grooves... it won't stop grooving just because you're suddenly using a click.

Basically, if you have samples and or layers of synths which can't be reproduced at will and have a "tape" running along you'll NEED the click.
If you don't have samples (or could be triggered manually) and don't need the tape a click is superfluous.
 

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