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Clipping

Quick question,

i recently purchased a Mesa Boogie Subway 2x10 cab and I tried running it with a Trace Eliot Elf and a Peavey Deltabass Head.

I noticed that when the volume went past 12 O’Clock (halfway) it started to clip but only on the low E String between open E and 3rd fret G.

why is this? Is it because the head isn’t powerful enough or is there an issue with the cabinet?

thanks,

Dan
 
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Quick question,

i recently purchased a Mesa Boogie Subway 2x10 cab and I tried running it with a Trace Eliot Elf and a Peavey Deltabass Head.

I noticed that when the volume went past 12 O’Clock (halfway) it started to clip but only on the low E String between open E and 3rd fret G.

why is this? Is it because the head isn’t powerful enough or is there an issue with the cabinet?

thanks,

Dan
Welcome to Talkbass! Thanks for joining.

Try turning down the head bass tone control. See what happens.

There are a lot of other things happening that others will stop by and explain.:thumbsup:
 
It only clips when the volume on the bass head is above 12 noon and only on the low E string to the Low G (3rd fret).

Is the speaker not getting enough power?

Welcome to Talkbass! Thanks for joining.

Try turning down the head bass tone control. See what happens.

There are a lot of other things happening that others will stop by and explain.:thumbsup:
 
Assuming all gear is functioning normally, the simple advice is "To avoid clipping the preamp, turn the pre-amp Gain knob down until the clipping sound goes away." If you have an active bass, you may need to set your pre-amp to handle the hotter input.

The Elf is 130 watts @ 8ohm and the Delta is 110 watts @ 8ohm. Not a lot. You also need to consider whether the preamp is clipping, the power section is clipping, the speakers are distorting, or some combination of the latter—all three or any two.


Here is what I do to find maximum volume without clipping or speaker distortion.

Get ready:
No pedals of any kind, fresh 9-volt in active bass, if applicable.
Set your pre-amp input to handle the active bass, if applicable.
Set all EQ to neutral, including any active EQ on your instrument.
Turn pre-amp Gain all the way off.
Turn instrument onboard volume on full.
Turn amplifier Volume all the way up.
When testing, use the (presumably) low pitches and manner of playing that cause aforesaid clipping and/or distortion.

Test:
1) Play and gradually increase the pre-amp Gain.
2) When you hear clipping or distortion, gradually cut low end EQ as you play until clipping/distortion stops.
3) Resume playing and carefully increase pre-amp Gain until clipping or distortion returns.

Repeat steps 2 and 3 until no clean volume increase is possible.

If the tone lacks low end, slightly decrease mids and highs and increase Gain, if possible. Cutting mids much will be counterproductive, as that is where the meat of your tone lies, and a sound without mids will soon disappear in a real world live band setting. You are lowering gain when you cut mids in most cases. Cutting EQ is actually cutting pre-amp Gain for a given frequency band—though this depends on the pre-amp. For example, I have an external preamp (pedal) which I use a lot. Its EQ is boost only. The more stages of Gain and active EQ you have, the more complex and tedious this can become!

Also, don't forget that the lowest pitches are not the ones you spend 100% of your time playing. Cutting midrange will reduce the lowest partials of pitches in the middle and upper-middle range of your instrument.

Beware that the Delta has a built in overdrive that kicks in when the Gain is at 100%. Also beware that the Gain control on the Elf does a some unusual things, too. FYI from the Elf manual:

"GAIN rotary control
This is to set the gain of the input stage of the amplifier. The setting of this control is the single most important on the whole unit. There are three regions of operation of the control, which can be visually confirmed by the activity of the signal LED.

SIGNAL LED
When the LED is green, the instrument signal is passing through the preamp without any compression. When the LED begins to flash red, more and more compression is occuring in the preamp as the GAIN control is advanced. The compressor also tracks changes made to the EQ; therefore, an increase in an EQ setting will require a decrease in the GAIN setting to maintain the same amount of compression."
 
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Clipping is a sign that something is being exceeded.
Speakers don't need to be fed a minimum of power to function: this is where the myth of "underpowering" takes hold. Speaker efficiency has to do with how well the power translates into output.
Does this clipping happen with both heads?
Does this clipping happen with a different bass?
 
Yes, there is clipping with both heads and I tried 2 different basses as well.

With the gain lowered it clips less but, these speakers should be more than powerful enough to handle these heads. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dan

Clipping is a sign that something is being exceeded.
Speakers don't need to be fed a minimum of power to function: this is where the myth of "underpowering" takes hold. Speaker efficiency has to do with how well the power translates into output.
Does this clipping happen with both heads?
Does this clipping happen with a different bass?
 
I have used my Elf Head with my SWR workingman cab and it works great. However I do know the Mesa Boogie Subway is a much more powerful cab...


Clipping is a sign that something is being exceeded.
Speakers don't need to be fed a minimum of power to function: this is where the myth of "underpowering" takes hold. Speaker efficiency has to do with how well the power translates into output.
Does this clipping happen with both heads?
Does this clipping happen with a different bass?
 
I have used my Elf Head with my SWR workingman cab and it works great. However I do know the Mesa Boogie Subway is a much more powerful cab... I guess I figured it would work as long as the head was less powerful than the cab. So the speakers would not get blown.


Clipping is a sign that something is being exceeded.
Speakers don't need to be fed a minimum of power to function: this is where the myth of "underpowering" takes hold. Speaker efficiency has to do with how well the power translates into output.
Does this clipping happen with both heads?
Does this clipping happen with a different bass?
 
Yes, there is clipping with both heads and I tried 2 different basses as well.

With the gain lowered it clips less but, these speakers should be more than powerful enough to handle these heads. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dan

Dan - it's not the speaker that's clipping or distorting. The amps will clip and distort when driven beyond their capabilities and the speaker is simply reproducing the distortion that the amps are generating. The lower the frequency being reproduced, the more power it requires.

You will need to turn the amp down until the distortion disappears or use a more powerful amp
 
The clipping on only "certain notes" is likely due to the reactive nature of the speaker load - different frequencies demand different amounts of current. It's likely your amp is hitting a current limit, and yes, if you want to go louder, you need a more capable amplifier.
 
It’s a short pop at the beginning of the note.

When you lower the pre-amp Gain and raise the master volume so the overall loudness is the same, does the "pop" go away?
If so, it is the pre-amp.

Which amp are you using and what are the settings?
 
you said volume up halfway? we talking Elf or Peavy

its pretty logical assumption that the amps are clipping. elf being maybe 200 watts more likely 140/160
and if i remember delta bass was approx 160/200 watt head as well. cant remember or we talking 700 watts? or 200 watts

its ported 2x10 200 watts is enough power for a higher efficiency system, 2x10 could use little more power.
then again 2x10 is a 2x10 lol. you could make the speaker fart out with low frequencies or heavily boosted low EQ with a fairly minimal amount of power. specially if its a ported cabinet
 
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I am using 2.
-1st- Trace Eliot Elf
And
2nd- Peavey Deltabass
When I turn down the Pre-amp gain the pop doesn’t happen as often but, it is still there.

Are your basses tuned EADG or BEADG using A=440 Hz?

Active bass or passive bass? Yes, I know you have tried more than one. Exactly WHICH ones?
 
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