Club Sadowsky!!!

[Addison]

Ok, speaking of MM stuff, I just made this mockup of a pickup idea that I have. Forgive me if this is sacrilege ...

That's my lefty M5-24. I love it to death - it sets up and plays absolutely perfectly, it's ridiculously light, it looks killer - it literally checks every mark, EXCEPT that I have currently have no use for that signature M5-24 tone. I keep bringing it out to lots of gigs and since I play mostly aggressive blues, rock, etc., it's just too buttery for what I usually go for. I love the tone - I just don't have use for it right now.

To curb that, my idea was to use the back edge (closest to the bridge) of the current pickup placement and have two Nordy Big Man pickups installed with a coil switch for each pickup.

This mockup is to scale - so there's no reason why this wouldn't work that I can think of.

I have no idea who would be willing to do this or what it would cost, but I'm wondering if anyone else might have had a dumb idea like this and actually went through with it or if there are any other basses out there with spacing similar to this.

You might also say, "Well - just sell that and buy a new bass that fits your needs, dummy!" Well, being a lefty, I can't unless I do a full cost custom shop NYC and that's just not in the cards for me right now.

Something like this, though, I could swing.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

-Chris

 

[Addison]

For anyone who cares - this is what it looks like normally without my mockup design - just a standard lefty M5-24.

 

[WorktheWood]

Not that it matters, but I think it looks cooler with the bigger Nord pickups.

 

[danclaro]

I wonder if Carey and crew have a sonic solution that would fit into the same routs?

Ok, speaking of MM stuff, I just made this mockup of a pickup idea that I have. Forgive me if this is sacrilege ...

View attachment 4584752

That's my lefty M5-24. I love it to death - it sets up and plays absolutely perfectly, it's ridiculously light, it looks killer - it literally checks every mark, EXCEPT that I have currently have no use for that signature M5-24 tone. I keep bringing it out to lots of gigs and since I play mostly aggressive blues, rock, etc., it's just too buttery for what I usually go for. I love the tone - I just don't have use for it right now.

To curb that, my idea was to use the back edge (closest to the bridge) of the current pickup placement and have two Nordy Big Man pickups installed with a coil switch for each pickup.

This mockup is to scale - so there's no reason why this wouldn't work that I can think of.

I have no idea who would be willing to do this or what it would cost, but I'm wondering if anyone else might have had a dumb idea like this and actually went through with it or if there are any other basses out there with spacing similar to this.

You might also say, "Well - just sell that and buy a new bass that fits your needs, dummy!" Well, being a lefty, I can't unless I do a full cost custom shop NYC and that's just not in the cards for me right now.

Something like this, though, I could swing.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

-Chris

 

[Addison]

I wonder if Carey and crew have a sonic solution that would fit into the same routs?

I don’t think using a different pickup in the same routs will help - I think it’s the placement, which, in my opinion, is consistently underrated when it comes to changing your tone.

Rerouting the pickup cavities to allow pickup coil placement to be closer to the neck is what I think would give me some more of the raw, earthy throat that I’m looking for - I don’t think a simple pickup replacement will solve the issue I’m having.

EDITED FOR CLARITY.

 

[WorktheWood]

The size difference between the stock pickups and the Nords would place the neck coil of the neck pickup quite a bit closer to the neck. That and the inherent tonal difference between the pickups might give you what you're looking for.

I don’t thing it’s the routs - I think it’s the placement, which, in my opinion, is consistently underrated.

Rerouting the pickups to allow their placement to lean further toward the neck is what I think would give me some more of the raw, earthy throat that I’m looking for - I don’t think a simple pickup replacement will solve the issue I’m having.

 

[Addison]

The size difference between the stock pickups and the Nords would place the neck coil of the neck pickup quite a bit closer to the neck. That and the inherent tonal difference between the pickups might give you what you're looking for.

Yes, that's exactly my line of thinking.

Does anyone know if Roger still does this kind of work at the shop or would I need to look into someone else?

Didn't Carey's shop used to do this kind of thing as well?

I'll have to start sending some emails.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I have no idea who would be willing to do this or what it would cost, but I'm wondering if anyone else might have had a dumb idea like this and actually went through with it or if there are any other basses out there with spacing similar to this.

As you already said, pickup placement is a huge deal: easily one of the biggest factors in determining the tone of a bass. The default Modern pickup locations will always sound different from standard JJ and PJ, regardless of pickup type.

I appreciate the punch and growl of the Modern pickup locations, but it's not my thing either so if I owned a Modern I'd also consider the routing that you've proposed. In the decades I've been playing I've had basses routed for additional pickups (starting with the classic P to PJ mod), and also larger pickups. It's not a big deal for a reasonably skilled tech.

The key is to find the right tech. If you have doubts about locals, then it might be worthwhile to get recommendations, or send it to the Sadowsky shop if they are still doing such mods.

 

[SteveC]

I've never been one to do major modding to my basses, at least not in the last 15 years or so. I get that people like the way a bass feels or there's some other bond - especially as a left handed player and want to keep it. I have a bass (Roscoe Century 5) that has a similar pick up placement with soapbar pups. I found that the tone wasn't really working for what I am doing now. I thought about modding the bass with different pickups (quad coil maybe) and toggles for series/parallel/single coil options, but then it wouldn't have the sound it has now (smooth and buttery as you say) which I love, just not for what I'm doing right now.

I decided to get a bass that had the sound I thought I was wanting and bought a Sadowsky JJ5. I know that isn't always an option as it is expensive. I love the bass, it sounds fantastic, but the neck is significantly wider than I'm used to, so we'll see how that goes. I put my Roscoe away for a while and am playing the Sadowsky for all my 5 string needs.

 

[marchone]

A MetroLine Will Lee RW4 showed up in the Classifieds today. I have no affiliation with the seller.

 

[KaseOfBass]

I've never been one to do major modding to my basses, at least not in the last 15 years or so. I get that people like the way a bass feels or there's some other bond - especially as a left handed player and want to keep it. I have a bass (Roscoe Century 5) that has a similar pick up placement with soapbar pups. I found that the tone wasn't really working for what I am doing now. I thought about modding the bass with different pickups (quad coil maybe) and toggles for series/parallel/single coil options, but then it wouldn't have the sound it has now (smooth and buttery as you say) which I love, just not for what I'm doing right now.

I decided to get a bass that had the sound I thought I was wanting and bought a Sadowsky JJ5. I know that isn't always an option as it is expensive. I love the bass, it sounds fantastic, but the neck is significantly wider than I'm used to, so we'll see how that goes. I put my Roscoe away for a while and am playing the Sadowsky for all my 5 string needs.

I'm tellin' ya man...you'd be happier with the Will Lee neck. That small difference in nut width/taper makes a big difference for me.

 

[SteveC]

I've never seen a WL5 that I could afford.

 

[SteveC]

I had an M5-24 a while back. I don't remember the neck being as wide. Maybe it's just the "standard" necks that are wider like this, the 19mm spaced? It's not so bad that I don't want to play it, but I do notice it and my hand is a little tired after a set.

 

[danclaro]

I don’t think using a different pickup in the same routs will help - I think it’s the placement, which, in my opinion, is consistently underrated when it comes to changing your tone.

Rerouting the pickup cavities to allow pickup coil placement to be closer to the neck is what I think would give me some more of the raw, earthy throat that I’m looking for - I don’t think a simple pickup replacement will solve the issue I’m having.

EDITED FOR CLARITY.

I agree with you 100% on the pickup placement point.

My question was kind of about the expense of buying two new pickups and getting a skilled luthier to do the routs and re wiring. Whenever I’ve done stuff like that, all the focus on what’s not right about the instrument made it impossible for me to focus on what was right. Plus, the surgeries ultimately left dings and scratches which I also focused on. So that was really about my perspective.

That said, your other point about left-handed instruments and also the fact that you love everything else about the bass sounds like the mods would result in a better instrument for you.

If you decide to do it, please post sound samples!

 

[bucephylus]

Exactly, I can't play a MM 5-string without pulling the G-string off of the board.

Yep. I've tried but could never get comfy on the narrow SR5 string spacing. Sadowsky playability (spacing, neck profile, etc) is perfect for me.

I’m not sure how the discussion went from a StingRay 4 string lookalike pickguard to 5 string spacing; but since we’ve opened that can of worms…

First, I and plenty of other bass players have gigged the SR5’s on countless gigs; those basses continue to sell at reasonable demand; and I at least maybe one time yanked the G string over the edge on a gig - and IIRC, that happened in a moment of not knowing what I was doing. FWIW, I thought the SR5 was a very decent instrument.

Each to their own. The 5 string Jazz Bass remains a source of frustration for me. My NYC 4 string is surely the finest 4 string bass guitar I have ever played; and that includes some heady alternatives over a long time. Roger definitely knows Jazz Bass.

But, 5 string specifications remain all over the place. I have gigged several Sadowsky 5’s, one for an extended run. But, the 19mm spacing creates a neck taper that feels more like driving a Ford F-350 Dually than an AC Cobra; and in car terms, the J has always been my Cobra. Still, its not like F-350 dually’s are unpopular; so…

Fender, meanwhile, chose an 18mm spacing; and that associated neck taper feels MUCH closer to a 5 string version of the Jazz to me. And, yes, Roger’s preamp goes very nicely into some of the Fender instruments. But, Fender has some extreme short comings, in terms of trying to work with them, or even find instruments that don’t have one problem or another. Moreover, they change their designs more often than a Broadway diva at the show. In general, Fender is a PITA.

I understand that Roger can only extend his designs so far while retaining a practical operation, and don’t question that. But, I will just say that to me, at least, 18mm vs 19mm makes a huge difference in feel of the instrument, with 18mm being much closer to capturing a Jazz feel in a 5; yet there is a yawning void of quality instruments in that particular bin.

Yeah, for me, a good 5 string Jazz reminds me of that test they do to test lung capacity, where you breath into the machine that has no back pressure. Just a big void. My $0.019.

 

[31HZ]

I’m not sure how the discussion went from a StingRay 4 string lookalike pickguard to 5 string spacing; but since we’ve opened that can of worms…

First, I and plenty of other bass players have gigged the SR5’s on countless gigs; those basses continue to sell at reasonable demand; and I at least maybe one time yanked the G string over the edge on a gig - and IIRC, that happened in a moment of not knowing what I was doing. FWIW, I thought the SR5 was a very decent instrument.

Each to their own. The 5 string Jazz Bass remains a source of frustration for me. My NYC 4 string is surely the finest 4 string bass guitar I have ever played; and that includes some heady alternatives over a long time. Roger definitely knows Jazz Bass.

But, 5 string specifications remain all over the place. I have gigged several Sadowsky 5’s, one for an extended run. But, the 19mm spacing creates a neck taper that feels more like driving a Ford F-350 Dually than an AC Cobra; and in car terms, the J has always been my Cobra. Still, its not like F-350 dually’s are unpopular; so…

Fender, meanwhile, chose an 18mm spacing; and that associated neck taper feels MUCH closer to a 5 string version of the Jazz to me. And, yes, Roger’s preamp goes very nicely into some of the Fender instruments. But, Fender has some extreme short comings, in terms of trying to work with them, or even find instruments that don’t have one problem or another. Moreover, they change their designs more often than a Broadway diva at the show. In general, Fender is a PITA.

I understand that Roger can only extend his designs so far while retaining a practical operation, and don’t question that. But, I will just say that to me, at least, 18mm vs 19mm makes a huge difference in feel of the instrument, with 18mm being much closer to capturing a Jazz feel in a 5; yet there is a yawning void of quality instruments in that particular bin.

Yeah, for me, a good 5 string Jazz reminds me of that test they do to test lung capacity, where you breath into the machine that has no back pressure. Just a big void. My $0.019.

Thanks for that (and I like the F350 comparison). It wasn't my intention to steer the conversation away from Sadowsky content, but rather to say that I would be interested in a MM-style bass (although perhaps without the pickguard) since I like the MM tonal palatte but don't get along well with the aforementioned G-string positioning.

It's not the spacing itself; I can be comfortable across a range of string spacing; my Zon LE Special 6 has 16.5mm at the bridge, and several of my 5s have 19, although I'd guess that my personal sweet-spot for a 5 is 18mm. Rather, it's simply that the G is positioned so close to the edge of the board on a MM that active changes to my technique are required in order for me to play one. I tried for a few rehearsals and simply sold the one that I bought here in the classifieds.

 

[Loepie]

Thanks for that (and I like the F350 comparison). It wasn't my intention to steer the conversation away from Sadowsky content, but rather to say that I would be interested in a MM-style bass (although perhaps without the pickguard) since I like the MM tonal palatte but don't get along well with the aforementioned G-string positioning.

It's not the spacing itself; I can be comfortable across a range of string spacing; my Zon LE Special 6 has 16.5mm at the bridge, and several of my 5s have 19, although I'd guess that my personal sweet-spot for a 5 is 18mm. Rather, it's simply that the G is positioned so close to the edge of the board on a MM that active changes to my technique are required in order for me to play one. I tried for a few rehearsals and simply sold the one that I bought here in the classifieds.

The new made in Germany Metroline 21-5 vintage M/J basses have the slightly slimmer necks (44.5mm or 1.75") like the Will Lee basses, and they do have 18 mm string spacing. I ordered one. Probably I will remove the pickguard because I don't like it that much, and because of the beatifull wood of the body.

 

[Joeykun]

^^^Agree! This bass would look so much better in a Standard configuration. Why take on a MM look? This looks more like a Sadowsky!

 

[pickups]

I’m not sure how the discussion went from a StingRay 4 string lookalike pickguard to 5 string spacing; but since we’ve opened that can of worms…

First, I and plenty of other bass players have gigged the SR5’s on countless gigs; those basses continue to sell at reasonable demand; and I at least maybe one time yanked the G string over the edge on a gig - and IIRC, that happened in a moment of not knowing what I was doing. FWIW, I thought the SR5 was a very decent instrument.

Each to their own. The 5 string Jazz Bass remains a source of frustration for me. My NYC 4 string is surely the finest 4 string bass guitar I have ever played; and that includes some heady alternatives over a long time. Roger definitely knows Jazz Bass.

But, 5 string specifications remain all over the place. I have gigged several Sadowsky 5’s, one for an extended run. But, the 19mm spacing creates a neck taper that feels more like driving a Ford F-350 Dually than an AC Cobra; and in car terms, the J has always been my Cobra. Still, its not like F-350 dually’s are unpopular; so…

Fender, meanwhile, chose an 18mm spacing; and that associated neck taper feels MUCH closer to a 5 string version of the Jazz to me. And, yes, Roger’s preamp goes very nicely into some of the Fender instruments. But, Fender has some extreme short comings, in terms of trying to work with them, or even find instruments that don’t have one problem or another. Moreover, they change their designs more often than a Broadway diva at the show. In general, Fender is a PITA.

I understand that Roger can only extend his designs so far while retaining a practical operation, and don’t question that. But, I will just say that to me, at least, 18mm vs 19mm makes a huge difference in feel of the instrument, with 18mm being much closer to capturing a Jazz feel in a 5; yet there is a yawning void of quality instruments in that particular bin.

Yeah, for me, a good 5 string Jazz reminds me of that test they do to test lung capacity, where you breath into the machine that has no back pressure. Just a big void. My $0.019.

I love my Sadowsky 5. It sounds and plays incredible, but I would much prefer if it had the 18mm spacing. I find it hard to go from my 4 string Fender Jazz to the Sadowsky 5 because the string spacing is hard to get used to. Still an incredible bass and the bands I play with love it when I bring it out to the gigs.

 

[Loepie]

^^^Agree! This bass would look so much better in a Standard configuration. Why take on a MM look? This looks more like a Sadowsky!
View attachment 4587068

Yes, that is what I was thinking of