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College Classes?

#21
Bass instruction -- take a private lesson. YouTube is another decent option. Going old-school with a book-n-CD or a book-n-tape wouldn't be bad. A group class for this would be my last resort... not that you wouldn't get anything out of it... but you'd probably attain more if you went with one of the earlier options.

Theory instruction -- Go check out a book from the library. Again, YouTube or various websites are a great resource to learn at your own pace. Again, a group class wouldn't be good for something like this.

If a college near you offered a class in ensemble performance or "jamming"... then yeah, I imagine a group class for those would be pretty fun.
 
#23
Check with the local city (or county) community or junior college, whatever they call it where you are. The rates can be really cheap or even free to take classes. I have been taking lessons at mine for a while now. The teachers are great and I pay $209 for a whole semester of one-hour private lessons. I took a couple music courses and they cost $59 each for the semester. Our college is a county college that is supported by our property taxes, so it is so cheap. If you're over 65, I don't think you pay anything for the classes.
 
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#24
Kombo said:
Hey TB, I was wondering your thoughts on the principle of taking a college course in regards to bass guitar, whether it be a one on one lesson or a theory class. My pal mentioned that he is taking a guitar lesson class this semester. I personally think the cost is not efficient at all, and something private elsewhere would be better. Still thought it would be a good conversation topic, so fire away!
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If its just a class room setting where they teach you bass guitar, private lessons are better.

There are some colleges that offer class room settings where they teach jazz improv and I've taken some of those. I found them to be worthwhile, albeit expensive.
 
#25
Speaking strictly of my own experience, I found my university music theory classes to be dull, tedious, and unenlightening even though the subject coverage was technically correct. The light didn't go on for me until I found how music theory actually works under my fingers. Oh and the where and when factors in as well: bass guitar was not viewed as a serious instrument at my school, fine institution that it is. Also piano was a requirement for both minors and majors.

Music school proper came to me post-undergraduate. And well worth it.
 
#26
There are a lot of good things about TB. The general distain for musical education is not one of them. By and large, most of the people I know who are against a formal musical education don't have one and don't really have a basis for judging whether or not it's worth the time and money.

To the OP, it's like everything else - you need to do some research to find out if it is worth it. How much are private lessons with a qualified teacher in your area? How much are the lessons at college? Who is the instructor at college? Does the college have a good music school? Without knowing the answers to these questions, you can't possibly know if it's worth it to go to college with your buddy.

The OP never mentioned the cost, yet a lot of people said it was too expensive. That's really sad.
 
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#27
lfmn16 said:
There are a lot of good things about TB. The general distain for musical education is not one of them. By and large, most of the people I know who are against a formal musical education don't have one and don't really have a basis for judging whether or not it's worth the time and money.

To the OP, it's like everything else - you need to do some research to find out if it is worth it. How much are private lessons with a qualified teacher in your area? How much are the lessons at college? Who is the instructor at college? Does the college have a good music school? Without knowing the answers to these questions, you can't possibly know if it's worth it to go to college with your buddy.

The OP never mentioned the cost, yet a lot of people said it was too expensive. That's really sad.
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Excellent post. As for the bolded part, I couldn't agree more. It amazes how many people I've run into who play music who have disdain for the formal education side of it, even with regards to lessons. Heck, I know some people who are downright proud of their ignorance.
 
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#29
glocke1 said:
Excellent post. As for the bolded part, I couldn't agree more. It amazes how many people I've run into who play music who have disdain for the formal education side of it, even with regards to lessons. Heck, I know some people who are downright proud of their ignorance.
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Thanks. I get a kick out of people who point to Paul McCartney as an example of why you don't need bass lessons, need to read music, or need to know theory. I see many more uneducated musicians that sound like Sid Vicious than sound like Paul McCartney. :D
 
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#31
lfmn16 said:
Thanks. I get a kick out of people who point to Paul McCartney as an example of why you don't need bass lessons, need to read music, or need to know theory. I see many more uneducated musicians that sound like Sid Vicious than sound like Paul McCartney. :D
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Haha. My teacher used to tell me that George Benson couldn't read either, and that I could stop worrying about reading when I could play like George. I'm still a crappy reader.
 
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#32
If it counts as a Humanities credit for your non-music degree then by all means take it. But you're going to learn more with private lessons. (and btw, I have a B.S. in music ed and graduate studies in performance, and 30+ years of music teaching, so I'm not anti mus ed.)
 
#35
mambo4 said:
Everything practical and useful about theory I learned outside of a class or formal instruction.
Just my experience.
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How much formal theory training have you had? I had two years of it in college - I admit a good part of it went beyond what I use today, but like any other class, you get as much out of it as you want to use. Take a look at many of the best players in the world - they studied it, and teach it.
 
#36
buldog5151bass said:
How much formal theory training have you had?
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I took a Theory 101 class in a liberal arts college. topics covered:
  • Intervals (Knew this going in)
  • Interval ear recognition (the useful bit, I suppose)
  • Major / Minor scale construction (Knew this going in)
  • How to construct a key signature using the circle of fifths
  • major scale triad qualities (Knew this going in)
  • Perfect and plagal cadences (Knew this going in)
  • baroque four part voice leading with archaic arbitrary rules (the bulk of the exercises)
  • in the final week: the existence of Dominant 7th chords (Knew this going in)
Looking at the list I realize it did present some useful fundamentals,
but I came in already knowing most of it, self taught.

The problem I had with it was that it was clearly targeted at classically trained instrumentalists
who rarely had to think about the why of the notation they could already proficiently read.

most of the class was guitar guys wondering how to use all the chords and scales they already knew how to play.
after a semester, they knew how to go V - I in triads or (for extra credit) V7 - I.
But they were forbidden to use use parallel fifths (good luck on a guitar)

Like I said, just my experience.
I suppose someone completely ignorant of intervals, scale construction and basic harmony
and with the patience to endure the baroque voice leading pedantry and all its arbitrary rules
might get something out of a college theory class.
 
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#37
mambo4 said:
I took a Theory 101 class in a liberal arts college. topics covered:
  • Intervals (Knew this going in)
  • Interval ear recognition (the useful bit, I suppose)
  • Major / Minor scale construction (Knew this going in)
  • How to construct a key signature using the circle of fifths
  • major scale triad qualities (Knew this going in)
  • Perfect and plagal cadences (Knew this going in)
  • baroque four part voice leading with archaic arbitrary rules (the bulk of the exercises)
  • in the final week: the existence of Dominant 7th chords (Knew this going in)
Looking at the list I realize it did present some useful fundamentals,
but I came in already knowing most of it, self taught.

The problem I had with it was that it was clearly targeted at classically trained instrumentalists
who rarely had to think about the why of the notation they could already proficiently read.

most of the class was guitar guys wondering how to use all the chords and scales they already knew how to play.
after a semester, they knew how to go V - I in triads or (for extra credit) V7 - I.
But they were forbidden to use use parallel fifths (good luck on a guitar)

Like I said, just my experience.
I suppose someone completely ignorant of intervals, scale construction and basic harmony
and with the patience to endure the baroque voice leading pedantry and all its arbitrary rules
might get something out of a college theory class.
Click to expand...


In general, theory is aimed at classical music, since that is the genre that uses it the most intensely.

So you took an intro course, and expected specific, specialized details. You won't get that whether it is music theory or biology.
 
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#38
mambo4 said:
The problem I had with it was that it was clearly targeted at classically trained instrumentalists, who rarely had to think about the why of the notation they could already proficiently read.
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Funny you should mention this. The last gig I played, there was a guy there who is taking lessons from my guitarist. He told me that he played classical guitar for years and could read like crazy. But he said he had no idea what any of the notation meant. If he saw 2 sharps, he simply played the two sharps where they needed to go. He had no idea that it meant it was the key of D major. Which by default, I suppose means he was ignorant of the harmonic content of the chord progressions he was playing.

I found that really hard to believe... I guess this is why classically trained people seem to have trouble with just going with the flow/vibe of a song. I guess they have no concept of what to do when there are no notes to read.
 
#39
Spin Doctor said:
Funny you should mention this. The last gig I played, there was a guy there who is taking lessons from my guitarist. He told me that he played classical guitar for years and could read like crazy. But he said he had no idea what any of the notation meant. If he saw 2 sharps, he simply played the two sharps where they needed to go. He had no idea that it meant it was the key of D major. Which by default, I suppose means he was ignorant of the harmonic content of the chord progressions he was playing.

I found that really hard to believe... I guess this is why classically trained people seem to have trouble with just going with the flow/vibe of a song. I guess they have no concept of what to do when there are no notes to read.
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This guy may have played classical guitar but i'm not sure I'd say he was classically trained. Nearly all of the classically trained musciians I've known, on many different instruments, were very well versed in theory. Maybe they don't improvise well, because they might not have to on a regular basis, but they certainly understand what is going on musically.
 
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#40
Spin Doctor said:
Funny you should mention this. The last gig I played, there was a guy there who is taking lessons from my guitarist. He told me that he played classical guitar for years and could read like crazy. But he said he had no idea what any of the notation meant. If he saw 2 sharps, he simply played the two sharps where they needed to go. He had no idea that it meant it was the key of D major. Which by default, I suppose means he was ignorant of the harmonic content of the chord progressions he was playing.

I found that really hard to believe... I guess this is why classically trained people seem to have trouble with just going with the flow/vibe of a song. I guess they have no concept of what to do when there are no notes to read.
Click to expand...

To me that means he was not a good student. Maybe he was a savant, but had not actually done the studying.

Theory is a tool - nothing else. Ask anyone if James Jamerson, Ron Carter, Anthony Jackson or Carol Kaye had any "concept of what to do when there are no notes to read".
 

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