combo amps vs seperate amps and cabiets

[StatesideRambler]

so whats the difference ? im still kinda new to the bass world and i have 2 combo amps ..a fender rumble 100 and a hartke 1400 both work fine for me but i feel im missing something by not having amps and cabinets seperate is it better sound ? more versatility? .. is it just easier having a combo and thats why manufacturers sell them? is a combo amp considered entry level equipment? thoughts and comments please!

Since you’re new to bass I recommend you set aside worrying about combo vs. separates until your chops and your ear can discern a genuine difference and understand what that difference is. If you don’t know what you’re missing then you should figure that out before you go spending money on more gear that you also don’t understand. I suggest spending some of your practice time twisting knobs, playing and listening so you understand what the knobs do. Cranking everything to ten tells you damned little about your rig.

No, combos are not generally entry level gear except at the low price end.

I began playing bass in 1966 and most of those years I used separates. I’m now 71 years old and I understand the advantages/disadvantages of combos and separates well enough to make a defensible choice. I’ve found that those who are most adamant about one or the other really understand less than they think they do.

Play and listen and practice and learn. Good luck to you!

 

[Mechanical]

There are some combos that are really great. What comes to mind are the MarkBass Richard Bona Ninja 500 and 250, the Marcus Miller 310 and 210, the Jeff Berlin 15, and the Alain Caron Signature. The Epifani Tour 333 is awesome and inexpensive for what it is. The GK Fusion and Legacy series is also very good if you like the GK personality. Phil Jones has made some good combos. Ditto for Carvin when they did amps. Mesa used to make a Walkabout Scout that was the bees knees.

You can easily get a "pro" sound from a combo. Don't let anyone dissuade you from getting a combo because they say they are for beginners.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

Combos are cool. They're convenient. You can always mount an extension cab if the need be. Some combos will even allow you to easily and painlessly separate the head from the cab (some Hartke, Eden and Markbass combos) and are essentially a head and cab situation themselves.

 

[packhowitzer]

so whats the difference ? im still kinda new to the bass world and i have 2 combo amps ..a fender rumble 100 and a hartke 1400 both work fine for me but i feel im missing something by not having amps and cabinets seperate is it better sound ? more versatility? .. is it just easier having a combo and thats why manufacturers sell them? is a combo amp considered entry level equipment? thoughts and comments please!

You know with a laptop, you've got one device with all the components needed - display, keyboard, trackpad, internal processors etc... well think of that as a combo amp.

You know with a desktop, you've got a bunch of separate components that all add up to making one system - separate monitor, tower, keyboard, mouse.... well think of that as a separate head and cabinet.

with the laptop, you get the convenience of a one stop shop, but the trade-off is you're kind of stuck with one set of components. but with the desktop, it's not as convenient as the laptop, but you can mix and match to your heart's content to build exactly the system you want.

For most of my 30+ years of playing, I've used head/cab systems or even preamp/power amp/cabinet systems (which offer another level of flexibility with an added layer of complexity). I've really enjoyed the selection and the customization that head/cab systems offer.

However, there are some incredible advances in technology and weight reduction that make combos a viable option. Also, a lot of advancements in PA technology have made big cabs not nearly as necessary as they once were.

For example, I play 60 gigs a year with a GK MB115 combo and a GK MBP115 powered cabinet. This setup has all the portability of combos combined with the power usually associated with a head/cab setup. It's not quite enough to play an arena, but I'd take it to any gig in my metro area. It's loud and light and wasn't that expensive. And I have a couple of really nice bass heads and cabinets in my home studio that 10 years ago got all the gigs, but these days just remain at home.

I hope that offers some insight. good luck in your search. You'll get lots of good advice here, so you've come to the right place.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

For me, I now play amp/cab. I once owned heavy combos, due to age & combo weight, I have lighter weight cabs & 3 pound amps. Now there are lightweight combos, still like amp/cab setup. Plus it is easy to carry a backup amp head opposed to a backup combo

 

[Rip Van Dan]

so whats the difference ? im still kinda new to the bass world and i have 2 combo amps ..a fender rumble 100 and a hartke 1400 both work fine for me but i feel im missing something by not having amps and cabinets seperate is it better sound ? more versatility? .. is it just easier having a combo and thats why manufacturers sell them? is a combo amp considered entry level equipment? thoughts and comments please!

*********** the Short Version (concise) **************
I'm a firm believer in separate amp and cabs. Why? Primarily because then I can upgrade whichever amp or cab needs to be replaced with a better one without buying both again which is what happens with a combo.

************ the TLDR version (long) ************
Now there are a number of nice combos out there that let you get an extension cab, but if you have for instance a Fender Rumble 200, which is reasonable for small venues and you get a second cab, that will allow you to play medium-sized venues. But if you need to play large venues, then you end up having to replace everything and buy the next step up of combos, the Rumble 500. Then what happens if you decide you don't like the Fender sound anymore and you want something different. You could go buy the head that you want and lug around the 200 combo so you can use the speaker in it. Good news is that Fender uses class D amps in their Rumble combos so they are not heavy amps, but nonetheless you end up carrying around dead weight.

Lots of folks love their Rumble combos and that's fine because it works for them. Doesn't work for me. I was able to upgrade my gear one piece at a time after I moved away from a combo. Back in 1997, my son loaned me a Yamaha B50-115II because I started playing in a group and had some gigs coming up. It sort of worked as long as you didn't need to turn it up above half way. Then in 2006 when I really started playing gigs again, I started off with a GK "brat pack" which was their GK Backline 250 and their GK115bpx. I'd used some GK gear for a short while back in 1997 and was impressed with it, so I paid my money and got my GK amp and cab. Turned out to be the worst purchase ever. Be aware this is GK's bottom of the line stuff, but it was all I could afford at the time.

I had purchases a Sunn B202 4Ω cab (212 cab) for ~$40 at a garage sale and figured I could use it with the 115. Surprise, surprise, surprise, that GK Backline 250 has a minimum ohms load of 8Ω and warns you not to try to hook up any additional cabs. Good news is my Sunn cab had both parallel and series outs from the back of the cab. So I plugged my Sunn cab into the GK amp and then used the serial out to the GK115. Since series connections add up the ohms instead of lowering them I was putting a 12 ohm load to that GK amp which it handled easily. Raising the ohms load drops the power and I was only getting about 85-watts out of that amp at this point, but with two 212 added to the 115 it was louder than without it and much better sounding.

Then I decided I wanted a better amp and I was not getting a very good sound out of that GK and the 115 was really boomy. So I bought an Eden Nemesis RS400 amp and found out what clear, clean, and articulate, sounds like. Still had to daisy chain the cabs but I was getting more than 100-watts to each cab as I soon found out. The added power of that RS400 caused my Sunn cab to fart out. It only handles 100-watts and it was getting more than that. So I had to be very careful with my master when using that old Sunn cab.

Then GC had a sale on the acoustic B410 cab. I bought one and retired the Sunn cab. Now I had two 8Ω cabs so all 400-watts was released from the amp and I had a 410+115 stack with 200-watts going to each cab. That was nice. Still had to dial back the bass EQ because that 115 was so boomy, but I gigged with that set up until 2010.

In 2010 through my connections on the Eden Forum, I bought the amp that David Nordschow had used to design his XST cabs and all his cabs from 1999 until he left Eden in 2009. It's a WT500 that he upgraded to an 800-watt power section. It does 400-watts into 4Ω per channel and bridges into 8Ω at 800 watts. I call it my WT500/800 (WT500 was originally 500-watts bridged into 8Ω). I plugged one cab into each side and then used the balance knob to send more power to the 410 than to the 115 and that tamed the boominess of that 115 without dropping my Bass EQ. That acoustic B410 thought it had died and gone to heaven getting the normal amount of bass EQ back after all those years. I gigged with that set up for the next 5-years until I left Virginia and moved back to the West Coast up in the Seattle area of Washington.

I had lusted after a DNS-410 cab from DNA since 2010 when David first released them, until 2015 when we moved because, with it's specs, I should never have to buy another cab. I pulled the trigger on it in April of 2015 and it arrived at my house 2-days before we left for Washington. I joined two bands after moving to Washington. One is a 5pc. (now 4 pc) band playing a wide assortment of rock songs and the other is a Blues/Rock trio. That cab handles 1,400 watts rms with a max SPL of 137db, and my 800 watt amp bridged into it could drive it to about 135db. But I never came close to running it that loud. At outdoor festivals if I ran my master of my 800-watt amp up to 10:30, I got told to turn down. So no need for an 810 either!

Ran into a problem with small venues especially a small brew pub where our 5pc. hosted Open Mic Friday Nights 40+ times a year. First time I rolled in my DNS-410 the owner shook his head "no" and said "use that" as he pointed to a little Peavey 112 combo. That actually filled that small room OK but just couldn't get a sound I liked out of it. Got a WTDI (DI box with Eden WT preamp and compressor built in), plugged into my WTDI and plugged it into the effects return of the Peavey amp, effectively replacing the Peavey preamp with my Eden one. And THERE was the sound I was looking for.

Then one day that amp was gone. So I plugged my WTDI into our PA and away we went. I decided I should invest in a 112 cab for that small brew pub and other small venues we occasionally played. Bought an Eden EX-112 and ran it with my RS400 amp The cab handles 300-watts so I had to be a little careful, but it wasn't a problem. In fact it was a really nice sound. So good, I decided to buy a second cab and use two of those 112's for out medium-sized venues reserving my DNS-410 for large venues and Outdoor Festivals. Down the road I bought an Eden TN-226 (225-watts rms) just for that one brew pub we played all the time. If you think about getting one of the Eden TN class D amps, get the TN-501with its 500-watts - much more versatile (250-watts into 8Ω and 500-watts into 4Ω).

In 2019 I was accepted to the DNA roster of Endorsing Artists and decided to get a DNS-210 to replace my 2x112 set up. It basically sounds just like my DNS-410 except it will go down to fundamental notes at 34Hz whereas my 410 only goes down to 37Hz. That DNS-210 will handle 700-watts rms for a max SPL of 134db (still above the threshold of pain). I took my 410 with me the first gig where I used it because we were playing a pretty big club and I wasn't sure the 210 would be enough.

So I stacked it on top of my 410 and if it wasn't enough in a matter of seconds I could unplug the 210 and plug in the 410. Well, it ended up being more than enough. Ran the master between 10 o'clock and 10:30 and had to move my amp over and up towards the front of the stage to get out of its 60° cone of dispersion because it was killing my ears. Was great out in the club but it was a corner stage and stage was shallow where I was. I ended up pushing our mains over more to my left to make room for moving my amp over there. Then we had a great gig.

I bridge my Eden WT500/800 into either of those cabs and it just sounds great! Since the DNS-210 is so loud, I use it at all my indoor venues reserving my DNS-410 for outdoors and Festivals. That Eden amp is super versatile with its 3 semi-parametrics covering all three octaves a bass can replicate, but I typically ran it flat with my passive Jazz Bass and just boosted the low mids around 250Hz up to about 1:30. In its rack, that amp weighs about 36-lbs.

And of course, DNA makes an 800 watt class D amp weighing just 4.8-lbs and since I'm on the endorsing roster, I get a discount on it - not as low as wholesale, but still a good deal. So now I am the proud owner of a DNA-800 amp too and I carry it in a shoulder bag. I did get an amp stand to hold up my 210 so it wasn't just shooting sound at my knees. That 210 cab weighs 52-lbs and the amp weighs 4.7-lbs. That's about 57-lbs of gear instead of the 116-lbs I used to lug around (WT500/800 + DNS-410).

After all that, the point is that I have made a LOT of upgrades (eleven if I counted correctly since 2005) bit by bit to get where I am with my gear and I'm very happy with it now. From the Yamaha combo I started this off with, I've upgraded 5 amps and 6 cabs. If I had continued to upgrade by buying new combos, it would have been a lot more expensive and I wouldn't have nearly the great class of gear I do now - DNA doesn't make combos. So I'm definitely a separate amp and cabs kind of guy.

 

[logdrum]

Combos are not bad. If it meets your stage volume requirement - why not.
The only disadvantage of upward facing controls are they will get wet faster than the side pointing ones if you have the habit of keeping your drink on your amp.

I have AI (Acoustic Image) combo that is also a removable head/ They do not use their full potential when in a combo because Ai uses inefficient drivers but wake up if plugged to other cabs and they are all 2 ohm capable since the beginning which I think was before 2000. The combos are so small you can almost hide them onstage. Pianist love it. I tried one with a 410 Berg and that was killer

Worst combo for me will be the SWR Redhead - heavy and overheats. Eden then made the Metro which is as heavy and also overheats. SWR did create the Baby Blue combo (we have one) which I think is at least a runner-up to the B15

Best executed 112 and they are not even class D is the Mesa Walkabout and they also made the best all tube combo in form of the Buster 210. Of course there is the Ampeg B15 but I will stand by my Buster preference because it can be played in a loud situation and has a Fender tonestack which I prefer.

Many people just parrot the B-15 thing even if they haven't played one. They are rare and shine best in studios for certain things. My buddy in VT has one but he barely plays it, the preamp distorts too soon. he is mainly an upright player and also plays accordion and he uses the B15 for that. Many have offered him $$ for that thing.

I always dissed Markbass combos because of their look but they are actually killer sounding - I was very surprised when I played one. Another I have tried are Carvin BX wedge type combos. And of course Fender Rumbles decent and cheap and can be treated rough. I am sure the new Neo GK will not disappoint as they have been doing bass amplification the longest. I had the aluminum box MB 150s. Great amp but will die when pushed like 2 o'clock on the master. But actually will keep a keep up the fight if you have an extension.

Lastly I've played thru AER combos. They are like loud studio monitors. And when I asked the owner how much are they, they are ridiculously expensive

 

[gleneg61]

If you can find one, get a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 with the 8" or 10" speaker, or 6.0/6.2 with the 12" speaker, Ibanez Promethean 300/500 watt 10" or other such designs, best of both worlds with the removable head and add-a-cab facility.
Don't know why more companies don't make this combo design.

 

[fdeck]

My "combo," from last night's rehearsal. Everything's just strapped down with an old bike innertube. Kind of messy but gets the job done.

I'd prefer a combo, but I like my homemade speakers. Also, there's no "try before you buy" in my locale, because there just aren't enough shops, so it would be hard for me to buy a high performance small combo. Building my own speakers actually lets me get what I want, albeit with a bit of effort. But I'm not going to mess around with trying to make a satisfactory DIY combo.

The "problem" with a combo is that you're still stuck carrying a bag full of cables, charts, etc., and hooking it all up. So there's not really all that much to be gained any more. A combo would basically eliminate one cable.

Combo amps do make sense in places like schools and rehearsal rooms, where any loose parts tend to walk away, break, or get lost.