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Common amp myths

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#201
jsingles said:
Obviously i believe that tube amps are perceived to be MUCH louder than many solid state amps of similar wattage, and I know there is a scientific explanation as to why.. but I think I would just like to hear it in "stupid people" terms so I can understand it better. So to ask his question again.. are they really the same volume scientifically?? but perceived to be different simply due to the nature of the sound a tube amp produces?
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Hee-hee... that avatar of yours combined with the borderline frustration you are expressing (I understand- I've been reading the whole thread trying to get a grip) really has a distracting effect! Your tone is taking on the look of the cartoon guy in your avatar!

Sorry... please, carry on!
 
#203
alexgeddy said:
ask ur audio physicist about low frequency comms with submarines...why they have ground plane antennaes.....I don't want to make an enemy but u might want to recheck ur sources
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Speaking of subs, and "radio" waves, here's a fun article on Loran and how they're being replaced with SS transmitters.

http://www.locusinc.com/library/2004 Nuts Bolts 2.pdf
These are the worlds most powerful radio transmitters.

In summary, maintenance costs and electricity costs pay for the change over. More watts for less power in. And it's improved accuracy. And they don't have to keep a whole spare transmitter around.

When we're talking about SS amps this is what you also get.
 
#204
alexgeddy said:
I give :::::::::::::u guys are right....I have no clue what u are bassin ur "facts on" ....I'm not gonna even offer an opinion...the phone thing was an issue of how u can present bass...


Bass players are fooled all the time by specsmanship and I guess that was the whole point of my post (rant) .....good luck to u

Bill
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Nobody's trying to offend someone else. We're just trying to sort through the BS and reduce it to fact only. Asking questions is fine, but at a certain point, you have to bow to someone whose life work is audio.

I agree that specsmanship doesn't always tell the whole story. But some specs are actually legit.
 
#205
I think some more important specs are often left out, not emphasized enough, or made out to be unimportant. Many people buying gear don't know what max SPL or any of that stuff is at all, and only look for the wattage rating, whilst still potentially not understanding the difference between peak rating and RMS rating.
 
#207
georgestrings said:
Sure - eventually, their usable volume will reach a max, and more than likely, one will be louder than the other... In my example, I'd make a pretty healthy wager that a B2RE would max out LONG before an SVT would, as measured by an SPL meter...
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What are your criteria for determining maximum usable volume?

Exactly how healthy a wager would you make? ;)
 
#208
Bob Lee (QSC) said:
What are your criteria for determining maximum usable volume?

Exactly how healthy a wager would you make? ;)
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You show up for a gig.

Drummers got the biggest set of vistalites you've ever seen, plays with marching band sticks. He's about 7 feet tall, played offensive line for Ohio State in college.

Each of the three guitarists have Marshall stacks, all knobs dimed.

You are presented with an 8x10 cabinet and your choice of an SVT or a B2RE.

If you choose the B2RE you have no real world experience with how these things work.

Watt for watt you can count on tubes providing more usable volume in the real world. Period.
 
#209
projectMalamute said:
You show up for a gig.

Drummers got the biggest set of vistalites you've ever seen, plays with marching band sticks. He's about 7 feet tall, played offensive line for Ohio State in college.

Each of the three guitarists has Marshall stacks, all knobs dimed.

You are presented with an 8x10 cabinet and your choice of an SVT or a B2RE.

If you choose the B2RE you have no real world experience with how these things work. Watt for watt you can count on tubes providing more usable volume in the real world. Period.
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I know, use the BR2E, but post a chart next to it explaining how it's just as loud as any tube amp so the crowd is sure to hear it.

:hiding:
 
#210
fireincairo said:
I know, use the BR2E, but post a chart next to it explaining how it's just as loud as any tube amp so the crowd is sure to hear it.

:hiding:
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lol

guys, I dont think anybody here is arguing that the BR2E would perform just as well as the SVT, we are just trying to understand the science behind this so people who wonder why tube amps with lower wattage are loud enough can learn a little bit about why that is true.
 
#211
(What are your criteria for determining maximum usable volume?

Exactly how healthy a wager would you make? ) from bob lee

I'll put my crown MT 1200 against a comparable QSC with a switching power supply...

and i don't even work for crown...... i hope they pay me for this lol
 
#212
True. This is a great thread for this kind of reason- I'm trying to understand about my 300 watt tube behemoth, and why I'm torn about selling it. I'd like to understand what it does, and if it's worth my keeping it... and if I can get what I'm after with a smaller and lighter amp.

Tube and SS appear to represent some of these specs differently. I'm getting good info on it though, like the harmonics generated by tubes as they 'compress' the signal. Cool...
 
#213
alexgeddy said:
(What are your criteria for determining maximum usable volume?

Exactly how healthy a wager would you make? ) from bob lee

I'll put my crown MT 1200 against a comparable QSC with a switching power supply...
Click to expand...

Switchmode amps have a good chance of winning bets based on real world performance because they draw less current from the wall for a given amount of output power.
 
#215
fdeck are u sure?? we are talkin watts. not current draw from the wall... I know for a fact the QSCs have limit lights that will come on before a crown.... I thin Bob lee knows that too... This is not meant to diss QSCs, just different flavors for different people
 
#216
projectMalamute said:
You show up for a gig.

Drummers got the biggest set of vistalites you've ever seen, plays with marching band sticks. He's about 7 feet tall, played offensive line for Ohio State in college.

Each of the three guitarists have Marshall stacks, all knobs dimed.

You are presented with an 8x10 cabinet and your choice of an SVT or a B2RE.

If you choose the B2RE you have no real world experience with how these things work.

Watt for watt you can count on tubes providing more usable volume in the real world. Period.
Click to expand...
Why are we using Ampeg's worst head as the measuring stick?
 
#220
Rick Auricchio said:
Any amp using a push-pull design pushes and pulls the speaker cone. .
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:confused:
Every amp pushes and pulls the cone.

georgestrings said:
Easy - an SPL meter in the identical same spot, using the same bass and cab - just like one sometimes has to use such a meter to conform to volume codes/laws...



- georgestrings
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That won't tell you anything. An RTA will, however, and if you have two identical speakers fed the same amount of power resulting in the same RTA they will sound identical, to the finest detail. Getting the same waveform from an SS versus tube amp that will result in the same RTA is the trick, but far from impossible to achieve.
 
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