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Common amp myths

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#344
joebingo said:
DI stands for Direct Inject - The signal is being injected directly from your amp, to the mixing desk. Hence, on your amp, it's D(irect) I(nject) Out.
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Direct Injection implies an input. It is in fact an output as sound is traveling out. A Direct Injection Box, as you know is an external device. The DO(h'!) would be more accurate.
 
#345
shakerattleroll said:
Here's an example that might help people to understand one of the reasons tube amps "seem" louder:

Have you ever noticed how commercials "seem" louder than the program you are watching on television? We perceive it as louder, but it isn't. The FCC mandates certain levels that CANNOT be exceeded. So how do advertisers get their commercials "louder"? They compress the living S out of them, and we therefore perceive the commercial to be louder.

This effect, compression, is just one of the reasons we can perceive the tube amp to be louder, but the watts aren't any more powerful or louder, on and on ad nauseam.
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So you're saying we're right, tube amps (notice I said amps, NOT watts) ARE louder...due to compression.

And since when did people start using watts as a measure of volume?
 
#348
NKUSigEp said:
So you're saying we're right, tube amps (notice I said amps, NOT watts) ARE louder...due to compression.
And since when did people start using watts as a measure of volume?
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-1 for reading comprehension. The myth listed in the OP, and propagated by millions of ignorant people, is that tube watts are different from solid state watts. To your point about amp loudness though, a solid state amp with solid state processing (compression, EQ, OD, etc.) can be just as loud per watt as a tube amp. Thus, the solid state amp is not "less loud" because it is solid state, but rather because it lacks processing that is inherent to most tube amps. Ergo tube amps are louder if you don't know how to do anything other than plug your bass into the amp and turn the gain knobs.

This is the basis for poor old George's "tube vs. SS" experience, and since he doesn't know how the signal is processed he can only rely on what results you get just by plugging in and turning up. Never mind that the B2RE is widely reviled as a terrible, weak, inefficient amp, completely irrespective of it being SS.

If people want to change their position to "between a tube amp and an equal-wattage SS amp, used by someone who just plugs in and turns it up, the tube amp will be louder", then yeah, obviously. But to then say "tube amps are inherently louder" is false, because an SS amp can be made to be equally loud without adding any wattage; and to go further and say "tube watts are louder than solid state watts" is obviously false.
 
#349
Jonyak said:
nope they are the same thing on a basic level.

you can use headphones as a mic.. a bad bad mic, but a mic nonetheless...

try it sometime. plug a set of headphones into a mic line and record with them. it works. I have done it.
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Actually, some headphones make excellent quality mics for binaural recording. Try it sometime, the results can be astounding.
 
#352
NKUSigEp said:
So you're saying we're right, tube amps (notice I said amps, NOT watts) ARE louder...due to compression.

And since when did people start using watts as a measure of volume?
Click to expand...

No. Reread my example. We just perceive them to be louder for a multitude of reasons, one of which is compression.

If upon reading the example again you don't understand, let me know and I will try to walk you through it again in a way that is more comprehensible.
 
#353
The semantics in this thread are getting ridiculous.

If a 300 watt tube head is much more easily heard than an equivelant SS head, call it whatever you may want, but for all intents and purposes in a band, it is louder. It has more of an ability to be heard. Go about it however you want, whatever helps you sleep at night is fine with me.

However, I think a big part of it is that amp companies are not honestly rating SS head outputs so a head rated at 300 might be putting out 150-200 max. Tubes on the other hand, put out a pretty tried and true output. You know how much output a head is going to have by what kind of and how many tubes are in it.
 
#354
Visirale said:
The semantics in this thread are getting ridiculous.

If a 300 watt tube head is much more easily heard than an equivelant SS head, call it whatever you may want, but for all intents and purposes in a band, it is louder. It has more of an ability to be heard. Go about it however you want, whatever helps you sleep at night is fine with me.

However, I think a big part of it is that amp companies are not honestly rating SS head outputs so a head rated at 300 might be putting out 150-200 max. Tubes on the other hand, put out a pretty tried and true output. You know how much output a head is going to have by what kind of and how many tubes are in it.
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The only incorrect use of semantics is stating that somehow a tube watt equates to something more than a ss watt. And to suggest that semantics don't matter is ridiculous.

If you would like to insist that somehow electrical theory is wrong because of how you hear something, well then I guess that is your prerogative. It's still wrong.
 
#356
When you push any device outside of it's normal operating range it can/will eventually do things that it will not normally do. There is no way that a normally operating 500w peak power amp will blow your 1000w speakers. There are no peaks on the leading edge of the square waves that I saw in my scope (we have a nice tektronix color scope at work). The engineers that design the amp also select the power section transistors to minimize unintentional clipping/transient voltage. Now if you have say a 1000w peak 500w RMS amp powering a 500w 700w peak speaker, then yes, if the amp clips you might have a problem because the speaker cannot dissipate the energy that it is receiving fast enough and it will overheat. I did this test with my mesa boogie walkabout playing a low E at standard pitch. I drove the input with my Boss GT-6B output maxed with the compression effect on the "deep" standard setting (it sounded terrible). No Boogies were harmed in the making of this post.
 
#357
shakerattleroll said:
The only incorrect use of semantics is stating that somehow a tube watt equates to something more than a ss watt. And to suggest that semantics don't matter is ridiculous.

If you would like to insist that somehow electrical theory is wrong because of how you hear something, well then I guess that is your prerogative. It's still wrong.
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And you can keep on your high horse, it's ok with me.

No matter how it is achieved, through compression or anything else, if a tube amp is "easier to hear" or "perceived to be louder," in my books it's perfectly alright to call it louder.

You can argue to the death, but you all are just going back and forth over definitions. When I'm playing, I don't care about definitions. Whatever works in the real world, in a band situation, is what I care about.
 
#358
JmJ said:
Direct Injection implies an input. It is in fact an output as sound is traveling out. A Direct Injection Box, as you know is an external device. The DO(h'!) would be more accurate.
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It implies an input, yes. As I said before, it inputs directly on the mixer.

think about it. when you go to have an injection, the medication that comes out of the needle, is injected. It's been outputted, but it's called an injection.
 
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