Competing with guitarist

[pes_laul]

Hmm When I rehearse or play out in the band I play guitar in I tend to only use an 18 watt tube amp with 2 by 12 speakers and that mixes pretty good with his ampeg.

But being a bassist also I understand what it's like to have overbearing guitar players so I tend to have the bass player set his volume with the drums then I'll set mine with theres.

 

[walterw]

While volume is often used as a reason for using a big cab, it's not the only reason. I like to use them because they plain just sound better, and I play at volumes that most people on here would call "piddly."

I must sheepishly admit that I've started using a full stack for bass as well (2 1x15 cabs). Not for more volume in the little clubs I'm playing in, but so that I sound deeper and cleaner at the same volume.

I'm looking for some nice, cheap, compact 1x15 cabs so my "stack" isn't so big and silly-looking as it is now with the 2 big and mis-matched cabs I've accumulated!

 

[TimmyP]

Isn't a 4x12 only 3db louder than a 2x12?

In theory. But many also have more "thump". Plus the highs are more directional, so they shoot past the guitarist's knees and kill the ears of (some of) the audience (and often the FOH guy as well).

 

[BigMac5]

In theory. But many also have more "thump". Plus the highs are more directional, so they shoot past the guitarist's knees and kill the ears of (some of) the audience (and often the FOH guy as well).

So a sealed cabinet 2x12 is less directional than a sealed cabinet 4x12?

 

[JimmyM]

So a sealed cabinet 2x12 is less directional than a sealed cabinet 4x12?

It has nothing to do with that. It has more to do with the beaming effect, where the larger the speaker, the more directional the mids and highs are. And if you have two 12"s on a horizontal line, it's got the effective directionality of a 24" speaker. And this is why guitarists think their amp sounds good while the people in front of it are getting drilled with high end.

 

[fenderfunker]

I had a guitardist with a double stack Marshall, Really hot guitarist too, but now he's deaf as a post. Yay! live fast die young. I now have a 3000 watt power amp and 2 x 410 cabs and 4x 15 cabs, just for guitarists like him. Perfect for weddings and 70th birthday parties etc

 

[shadowmac]

Is repositioning the guitarist's rig an option? Turn him away from you a bit. In my experience, guitar is often more directional in it's push - bass fills a room.

 

[MKoby]

Why are you playing in a band with an unthinking person who considers it his right to wreck your hearing?

Consider.
He isn't bright enough to control the volume.
Why put up?

Is there enough money in this gig to make it a fair trade to go deaf?

 

[Vendele197]

After all of the comments and ideas, I'm starting to think that it's a problem with my amp/cab. Currently, I have to be at full volume on the A level and about 3/4 on the Master, and that's mainly to keep up with our drummer. It's starting to seem more likely that for whatever reason, my rig isn't producing as much sound as it should.

 

[NGL]

It has nothing to do with that. It has more to do with the beaming effect, where the larger the speaker, the more directional the mids and highs are. And if you have two 12"s on a horizontal line, it's got the effective directionality of a 24" speaker. And this is why guitarists think their amp sounds good while the people in front of it are getting drilled with high end.

Hey Jimmy, you think you could expand on that a little bit, or send me a link where I could get more details?

 

[JimmyM]

Just tried to find a good link and couldn't. A search on here should give you more info, though.

 

[TimmyP]

Read any paper on line arrays, and you'll get the basic idea. Any time you put two drivers next to each other, you get constructive and/or destructive interference, depending upon your location. When you are in the middle of the two drivers, most all of the frequency spectrum from the drivers adds together. As you move off axis, some frequencies don't add, and some actually cancel. Generally speaking, this occurs more as the frequency goes up. So what hits the guitarist's ears is very much different than what is heard by the poor audience members at whom the cabinet is pointed. Same goes when you side wash the cabs - the guy on the other side of the stage likely hears the cabinet better than the quy who is playing through the cabinet.

 

[walterw]

Invalid Link Removed about this very thing on the gear page, along with a brilliant, cheap and easy solution for guitar players from one jay mitchell.

 

[MIJ-VI]

Hmm When I rehearse or play out in the band I play guitar in I tend to only use an 18 watt tube amp with 2 by 12 speakers and that mixes pretty good with his ampeg.

But being a bassist also I understand what it's like to have overbearing guitar players so I tend to have the bass player set his volume with the drums then I'll set mine with theres.

This. ^

IMO if the volume level of amplified instruments exceeds a particular drummer's ability to play with finesse, then a band's (a micro orchestra really) dynamics will soon flat-line and fail to attain and manipulate that element of drama which underscores a truly musical performance.

It's the difference between impassioned oratory, and just raving...

 

[mpm32]

Exactly, dynamics should be the word of the day. They can make a song killer where no dynamics will make a song eh.