Composing Atonal Music

[SnoMan]

http://www.m-base.com/

read some of this for an interesting perspective on alternate composition/s /methods.

OH......DEAR......GOD.......


In, I believe my second year, of all-county jazz band, we played a song composed by the jazz director of WVU.

It was based on m-base stuff...theories, ideas....whatever..

It was called, I believe, Nanga Def. I can't find anything about it online...thankfully.

Every section was playing in a different key....AND different time signature....

rhythm, horns, bones, and saxes...all doing different things, in differnt times...at the same time...

and we we switch parts....some groups would come together...others would drop out...I think I saw a guy picking his nose in his own meter....

It was insanity..

It sounded atrocious...

Maybe it could have been pulled off by professionally trained musicians...but I think we may have done it about as much justice as we possible could have.


I have it on video.....ugggghhhhh....it was.....wow.... :scowl:

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

Do not linger on off key notes for very long and playing a tad faster helps. If you listen to Pink Floyd's 'Echoes' after the first verse there are a few guitar fills that start of atonal and then wander back into key.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

messiaen is a great example, he even use birds(the rithm .

Messiaen actually transcribed birdsong and included it in his orchestral works as well as a large number of piano pieces, which were almost like catalogues of birdsong.

So - his largest and most famous orchestral works - like the Turangalila included birdsongs and sounds of nature - like the background sounds of a garden at night..

His very last major orchestral work, includes a movement with scored parts for 25 individual wind instruments all playing different, transcribed birdsongs at the same time in different time signatures - I saw this performed at the Albert Hall in London and it was an amazing sound!!

 

[Brad Barker]

coincidentally, i was reading about group theory online and came across this:

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the page is pretty accessible to non-math people (i think--could be wrong, though ). atonal music as a mathematical structure called a "group" is at the bottom.

 

[Esteban Lobos D]

i'm aware of what he did with birds, in fact one of his 3 passions was ornithology, the other ones were cristianism and indian music.

(i've heard that what was important for him about the birds weren't necesarely the pitch of the birds sound, it was the rythms, but i might be wrong)
messiaen included in his music hidden messages like what bach did + his music was very descriptive, as you say his compositions are supposed to capture all the sounds of nature.

oh i envy you so much, you never see much live symphonies here, that means that you never see great contemporary works like turangalila. well in fact i have seen only one big philarmonic wich was the israel phil with zubin metha, and i had the best seat available(at a side of the double bassists, in the same line the conductor was standing.)!!! they played beethoven overture leonora, the 5th, ravel la valse, and amy mayaami(a name like that) wich was a composer from israel who was in a more or less messiaen language.


ELD.

edit: and about my previous post i forgot to put that with this "alternative" methods of composing, you can put that kind of harmonies to any melody you want, it can even be twinkle twinkle for example. it doesn't need to be a melody without "clear sense" as some people can say.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I've seen the Turangalila 3 times now, with big-name orchestras - it's always an overwhelming experience!!

One of the most interesting atonal works I saw recently, was Ligeti's violin concerto, played by Tamsin Little - where the soloist actually tunes microtonally 'out' with the orchestra, who also have separate tunings ...

At the end, the soloist has an improvised cadenza where they are supposed to try to sum up all that was in the concerto - on their own!!

 

[Esteban Lobos D]

agh! :scowl:

you understand.

 

[page]

coincidentally, i was reading about group theory online and came across this:

Invalid Link Removed


the page is pretty accessible to non-math people (i think--could be wrong, though ). atonal music as a mathematical structure called a "group" is at the bottom.

Wow that's confusing.

 

[Muzique Fann]

Interesting stuff here.
Sun Ra should be mentioned as pretty damn atonal at times. Also Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead's Drums>Space forrays were way atonal.

Oops, I just remembered about Trey Anastasio's Surrender to the Air album - I think that fits in here as well
(Oteil plays bass on that one).

 

[Brad Barker]

Wow that's confusing.

guess i was wrong, then.


now i just might think that most composers DON'T have a working knowledge of group theory.

can't wait until abstract algebra next semester!

 

[brianrost]

Geez, page....I would hardly go playing atonally just because I was having trouble improvising inside tonal centers!!! Did I misunderstand your original post?

Sounds like some ear training is in order!!!

 

[Matt Till]

OH......DEAR......GOD.......


In, I believe my second year, of all-county jazz band, we played a song composed by the jazz director of WVU.

It was based on m-base stuff...theories, ideas....whatever..

It was called, I believe, Nanga Def. I can't find anything about it online...thankfully.

Every section was playing in a different key....AND different time signature....

rhythm, horns, bones, and saxes...all doing different things, in differnt times...at the same time...

and we we switch parts....some groups would come together...others would drop out...I think I saw a guy picking his nose in his own meter....

It was insanity..

It sounded atrocious...

Maybe it could have been pulled off by professionally trained musicians...but I think we may have done it about as much justice as we possible could have.


I have it on video.....ugggghhhhh....it was.....wow.... :scowl:

You should post that.

 

[page]

Geez, page....I would hardly go playing atonally just because I was having trouble improvising inside tonal centers!!! Did I misunderstand your original post?

Sounds like some ear training is in order!!!

Well, more than that , I also listen to and enjoy alot of atonal music. But yeah your probally right, the thing is though, i've tried to train it , since I began playing music and it hasn't seemed to work.

 

[sargebaker]

You should post that.

+1 I'd love to see it/hear it.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well, more than that , I also listen to and enjoy alot of atonal music. But yeah your probally right, the thing is though, i've tried to train it , since I began playing music and it hasn't seemed to work.

Come on !! Looking at your profile... you're only 17 years old - people train for 20 or 30 years to be able to play this stuff - it's a life-long learning process - you can't give up after such a short time!

All the noted atonal composers spent many years studying traditional methods of composition and musical theory - they mastered that, before developing their own music.

Olivier Messiaen took up his first post in his 30s as Harmony Professor at the Paris Conservatoire and started to write his great atonal works after at least 20 years of studying conventional harmony - he also gave lessons to Stockhausen and Boulez at that time - these people were devoting themselves to studying all types of music for many, many years !

 

[Esteban Lobos D]

i profoundly agree
when i was like 17(i'm 20 now) i looked at the road as a very dark one, i felt kind of, ahh to be a great artist is so difficult, but nowadays there's light at the end of the tunnel you know!!!