Does the make up gain in a compressor typically only affect the compressed signal or is it applied to everything?
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Compressor Gain
- Thread starter bassboysam
- Start date
My compressor (MXR) has a "gain" control, which controls the input signal and an "Output" control which controls the compressed signal coming out.
I usually try to match the output with the bypassed level so I can turn off the compressor (ie if the sound guy is compressing me) and not effect the volume. The gain is set so that when I'm playing normally, no more than two or three lights show on the meter. If I'm playing aggressively or using a pick it will sometimes peg the meter, but that's why I run compression. Keeps all the other pedals in my chain from getting their inputs or outputs overloaded causing distortion.
I usually try to match the output with the bypassed level so I can turn off the compressor (ie if the sound guy is compressing me) and not effect the volume. The gain is set so that when I'm playing normally, no more than two or three lights show on the meter. If I'm playing aggressively or using a pick it will sometimes peg the meter, but that's why I run compression. Keeps all the other pedals in my chain from getting their inputs or outputs overloaded causing distortion.
i'm referring to the output gain. when i try to compensate for the compression the attack portion of the signal gets boosted eventhough it is not being compressed. this is causing my signal to clip when recording. just wondering of this is typical of compressors or just a quirk of mine, a keeley compressor pro.
I think that typically, the output gain affects the overall volume of the signal after its been compressed. It's meant to make up the difference in volume that's lost after the effect has been applied.
It's applied to everything that comes out of the compressor. The compressor may only affect some of the signal depending on the type of compressor and setting, but the gain is just a volume control for everything that is coming out of it. As others have said, I think the usual approach is to match volume with the volume you have when the compressor is off, that's what I do anyway.
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ok so to effectively boost the decay portion of the signal the best approach would be a fast attack and fast-ish release to reduce the attack in relation to the decay and then boosting the volume to match the bypassed signal.
I see what your saying, can't see anything wrong with that approach if you want more even volume/sustain. Slower attack, in general brings more articulation, faster a more smooth attack, at least in theory. But of course, it also heavily depends on the compressor being used and how it works and there are quite a few different designs. I don't even have attack control on mine, only release.
i'm actually having a hard time understanding how the release works on this pedal. It sounds like it controls how quickly the compressor resets after there is 0 input signal instead of how quickly it release after the signal drops below the threshold..
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In my experience, figuring out exactly what compression pedals are doing can be tricky, because (typically) when they are working at their best, they are not leaving much artifacts. It often takes me lots of playing and fiddling to get a good feel of the controls. Keep at it. Maybe try to make some bass loop recordings and play them into the pedal so you can really concentrate on the sound while adjusting the knobs.
bongomania
Commercial User
To answer the original question, make-up gain is a boost of the entire signal, across all frequencies, by a fixed amount, totally regardless of what the compressor part of the circuit is doing.
Some "release" controls are also tied to the attack time, and sometimes attack and release times can depend on the peak amplitude, having faster or slower time when given higher or lower peaks.
interesting, thanks bongo. i'm testing it out with my synth and will post some pics of the waveforms when i'm done
- Jan 26, 2014
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- I teach lessons and perform live music in and around San Diego CA. Sometimes I even make money doing it!
Interesting. You should be able to easily record around -12, I’ve read of some people targeting -18, and get a good recording out of it, unless you’re recording analog of course. No need to ride levels or flirt with 0db like the old days. So if recording levels are set sensibly, the problem of clipping should be moot. A 12 dB swing between attack and sustain would be a drastic effect, beyond what most people would consider compression, at which point, the solution is still to trim down the input level.
I wouldn’t get too hung up on knobs and labels, gotta learn to trust your ears, settings that work on one song don’t even necessarily work on others. The advice to loop or record yourself with and without the effect can be ear-opening.
A fast attack will get rid of more of that loud initial transient of your note (as you say, "reduce the attack in relation to the decay"). However, if what you intend is to add some sustain, I'd suggest to try a slow release time.
Surely the 'Release' will be doing the same thing in both instances? Ideally you want the release time set so that if, say, you are playing 8th notes it releases in time for the start of each new note. Otherwise you get the compressor kicking in on your first note, and thereafter it is squeezing away. This makes your parts sound quieter, which is when you reach for the output gain.
I'm not a big compressor user, but when I had a Joe Meek FloorQ unit I set it with quite a slow attack. This was to copy the sort of sluggish optical compression used in the '60s. If I was using flats, a pick, and palm muting, I wanted a slow enough attack that the character of that initial 'click' of the pick and the strings was heard fully. With too-fast an attack this would be lost, and with too slow a release the 'click' of the following notes would be lost; with too long a release you end up with a dynamic-free sausage of compressed notes. I set the unit in accordance to the music I was playing at the time, but it was guesswork at the end of the day.
Again, the thought process for me was whether I wanted compression to be an invisible 'man behind the curtain' effect, or whether I wanted that big, bouncy Paul McCartney compression as an overt, noticable effect. With a compressor pedal, are you looking for a discrete studio effect in a box, or a janky artifact-strewn special effect that is plainly obvious when engaged?
I'm no expert at all, but with home recording I add compression after recording. The only exception would be if I had a compressor (I'm modifying a Boss CS-3 to bass specs as it is a silly, hyperactive compressor) with a particular character that I am looking for. I find it hard to mix in an around a bass track (or other instrument) that has already had the guts squeezed out of it. Harder to EQ and make stand out in the mix.
Yes. And to your original complaint, that the attack was coming through too hot and clipping, also the remedy I suggest is to shorten the attack time control so the comp grabs more of the attack.
Finally, yes my understanding is makeup gain affects the entire signal. If it only affected “the compressed part” it would just be undoing the compression, sort of like EQing a certain frequency down and then later EQing that same frequency back up. It would be pointless and just add noise to your signal.
The Keeley Bassist Limiting Amplifier has three controls (in order of signal "passage")-
Threshold, Compression (Ratio) and Gain.
Gain makes up for the reduced (compressed/limited) output (of course).
Without the Threshold or Compression knobs engaged, it does make a VERY clean booster too!
I have seen some compressors that have Input and Output controls though (Input so as to not overload the circuit, and Output to "make up" the lost signal level from the compressor).
I've also seen some where the Gain/Input only adjusts the input (pushing the cmopressor) but no output level...
i've used compression for a long time...always on...25+ years ago i was using an alesis 3630, which everyone pisses all over now because of the noise floor and the artifacts it produces...i now use dbx compressors, the dbx compressors sound good but don't have the control that the alesis has...i miss the alesis' flexibility so i may have to buy an upgrade kit and work on one the 5 3630's i own...
i've never used a compressor pedal...always rack mount...
i've never used a compressor pedal...always rack mount...
Depending on the controls your compressor actually has on it, you may or may not be able to accomplish what you are looking for.
As you turn your threshold control to be more sensitive, the compressor will grab more of the signal more quickly.
If you have a "hard knee/soft knee" control that will determine whether the compressor "gently" activates, or activates immediately when the threshold is breached.
If you push the "Ratio" control up, you will turn more and more of the attack into sustain, effectively reducing the attack. For instance, a 4:1 ratio will drop your attack a bit while adding some sustain to your signal. 4 to 1 (4:1) means your initial signal has to increase by 4 db before your output signal will increase 1db. 12:1 or 14:1 should eliminate most of your attack and give you a long sustain. Max out your ratio and you will sound like an old Farfisa organ - no attack and constant sound until you stop it.
Decay or Release is how quickly the compression stops once the threshold setting is no longer exceeded. A short release will stop the compression right away. A long release will keep sustaining the note well after the input is below the threshold level.
I would suggest playing around with your ratio first and then try adjusting the release to see if you can get it to let go when you want it to.
One of the reasons folks will use a compressor is so they can boost the overall volume and get a fuller sound without hurting their gear with massive peaks from the increased volume because the compressor tames the peaks.
