• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Concerts where the bass sounds lousy

#62
micguy said:
You have left out some very important parts of the equation.

1) The room itself has a huge impact on the sound. There are places that you will never hear a good concert - the room is simply that bad.

2) If the room is good, then you wold tend to blame it on the "sound guy" - leaving aside that some of the best FOH people aren't guys, we'll take on one other detail - for a bog tour, there are 2 "sound people" - there is a "Systems Engineer" who is responsible for getting the PA set up and tuned to the room so that you can make a good mix - if you ask the FOH person to do that, some don't have the skills (Systems Engineer is a highly technical job), and even if they do, the process is so hard on your auditory attention span that its essentially impossible to mix well after that. The FOH person comes in after the system is set up and tuned (with fresh ears) to mix. If either Engineer doesn't do their job well, the sound can be a mess, and who is at fault? You (the audience member) won't know.

3) The musician is responsible for doing their job well, but if they are a "hired gun" (not the name on the marquee) then what they play and how they get their sound are things that are team efforts - there will be someone who is a music director who hires and manages the musicians and the FOH person and the musician will work together to get good sounds that can work in the house mix.

Sound for a concert is not a single person's responsibility - it's a team effort. Given that, if the team dynamics aren't good, the sound may suck simply because the people aren't working well with each other.
Click to expand...
In this case, it was a fancy pants venue, less than a decade old and custom built to be a venue. I have to imagine that some care went into it as it’s the top venue in the city. I’ve only been to one other show there, and given that I forgot earplugs both times and wasn’t in pain afterwards, they’re doing something right.

As for the bassist, core member of the band - not a hired gun.

The sad thing is that other instruments sounded great (all the different keys used and the guitar), but the bass was horrible.

Drums weren’t great, but the bass was definitely the weak point.
 
#67
Last week I saw Richard Thompson in a newer 1500-seater, sold out show. Richard through a 65 Amps piggyback set up, Taras Prodaniuk through an SVT rig, the amazing Michael Jerome on an extensive, well-mic’d drum kit, and Thompson’s grandson, Zac Hobbs(who has learned all of Richard’s wizardry)on second guitar through a Fender combo, plus Richard’s wife, Zara, on backing vocals. Typical modern PA, flown highs/mids, subs on floor, wedge monitors. Loud, but properly loud, with some crystal clear solo acoustic moments(gotta have “52 Vincent”). In having seen him at least 25 times over 40 years, that had to be one of the best of his gigs, performance and sound. A variety of ages in the crowd(even Millenial dads with school age kids), but I hadn’t seen so many canes and walkers since my mother was in assisted living.
 
Last edited:
#68
Michedelic said:
If there isn’t a PA, how do you hear at least the vocals?
Click to expand...
Good question, and the answer is instrumental music. It's too bad because I like vocal music too. As I mentioned, I like contemporary music -- my bass is amplified when I play after all. I like the experience as well. But I think the traditional musicians (including support crew) have done a better job of delivering audience-friendly performances.

Although, I can hear the vocals when there's an operatic singer standing up in front of the symphony. Somehow they figure it out.

And it's not a hard line. It's really not about the presence or absence of PA, but how it's used, and how predictable that has become. I think "sound reinforcement" still works better than "sound replacement" because the musicians are still in the loop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Passinwind, Jeff Scott and JazznFunk
#69
Bloated subs, kick over-mixed, and bass with the mids sucked out to make more room for the kick generally ruins most concerts for me.... along with volume levels having gotten out of hand. It's rare that I hear a larger show with well-mixed bass where you can hear the detail and tone. The best bigger shows I've seen recently were in our mid-sized outdoor venue downtown here in Asheville (Rabbit Rabbit), and our best outdoor venue in general was sadly destroyed by Hurricane Helene (Salvage Station). I haven't seen an indoor, loud rock show in decades. Smaller, un-reinforced or minimally-reinforced instrumental/jazz shows are about the only thing I go to see these days. Sometimes I don't even need earplugs for those!
 
#71
g-dude said:
In this case, it was a fancy pants venue, less than a decade old and custom built to be a venue. I have to imagine that some care went into it as it’s the top venue in the city. I’ve only been to one other show there, and given that I forgot earplugs both times and wasn’t in pain afterwards, they’re doing something right.

As for the bassist, core member of the band - not a hired gun.

The sad thing is that other instruments sounded great (all the different keys used and the guitar), but the bass was horrible.

Drums weren’t great, but the bass was definitely the weak point.
Click to expand...
If the bass player was using an amp, and his level on stage interacts with the PA, depending on the acoustics, it can be very difficult to get a good bass sound. If you’ve heard good bass in the venue for another act, chances are the PA is set up well. Playing ampless is a great way to help the FOH person get a good bass tone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: g-dude
#74
The headliner usually sucks volume wise. Case in point, TOP and Steve Miler band opening for Journey, sound was bad by the time Journey started. But some artists control it. When Kesha was here. She was with FOH and monitor engineers during sound check. I thought it was some manager but they said she really cares about the mix. Really good sound - immersive and you can hear everything. Also have luck with dance oriented bands, except for Reggae bands. Also European a nd Japanese venues sound so much better.
 
#76
logdrum said:
The headliner usually sucks volume wise. Case in point, TOP and Steve Miler band opening for Journey, sound was bad by the time Journey started. But some artists control it. When Kesha was here. She was with FOH and monitor engineers during sound check. I thought it was some manager but they said she really cares about the mix. Really good sound - immersive and you can hear everything. Also have luck with dance oriented bands, except for Reggae bands. Also European a nd Japanese venues sound so much better.
Click to expand...
Pre-C, a friend and I went to see John Scofield and Trombone Shorty.

John's set sounded excellent; TS's was SO LOUD that we looked at each other and pointed to the exit sign.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Passinwind, logdrum and Wasnex
#78
Porcupine Tree at Radio City last time they came thru, Sept. 16, 2022. Up in the balcony, any time the bass drum and bass guitar hit together, it was an ungodly combo of rattle and indecipherable BOOM. They corrected it during intermission and the second set sounded much better.
 
#79
By the way I have heard some concerts with full blown PA that were just awesome. Madison has some outdoor performances of the symphony and the chamber orchestra, for huge crowds. It's kind of a party atmosphere, and the music would be drowned out by crowd noise. The sound company that does these shows (maybe it's Full Compass) really makes it sound like a real orchestra, with soloists and singers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Passinwind

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back