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Confessions of a flatwound convert pt 2.
- Thread starter john turner
- Start date
Have the Sadowsky regulars on my Precision. Tensionwise they are not like the TIs, soundwise they are between Chromes and LaBellas. To my ears more modern than old school thump, after two months of breaking them in. As said in another thread, think Chromes without the clang and with better mids.
+1 on both of your statements. I've been in the same classic rock cover band for 30 years. We did originals back in the day, then we came to the conclusion that our tunes were incredibly mediocre, so we went the cover band route for longevity's sake, which has served us well over the years.
When I switched to Chromes after seeing Sundogue's initial post, it was as if my band's sound came alive. My bass no longer fought with the two guitars for a place in the overall mix of the band. Not only could you hear my bass more clearly in the mix, but both of our guitars came alive as well. Some may say I'm over-dramatizing, but the guys in my band and the soundmen at the clubs we play will disagree. I've had almost all of the soundmen who mix us tell us how easy we are to mix.
Do I miss the "growl" I got from rounds? Sure. But I like the sound of my band a lot better. And to borrow a phrase, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." We're not playing any Rush, Yes, or metal. We play classic rock covers and I'm living happily ever after with my flats, thank you very much...
+100 - There is really no "ONE" answer to this question. I like flats with most gigs and for the top 40 type bands I tend to favor rounds for the added "modern" sound they tend to give.
When I am doing anything else, its TI flats all the way. I used them with a Big Band in an outdoor situation a few days ago and they were just sublime.
I love TI flats on my G&L l2500 and I love rounds on my Sadowsky. Between these two setups there isn't much I can't do (I have an upright for that "other" stuff) The point of this thread is a revelation that Flats are in fact, useful, after years of ignoring them. I don't think Sundogue, or most people, would suggest that you NEVER need rounds. Both serve their purpose, and both should be in the arsenal of any serious bass player.
I'd just like to say that this is the best thread ever! I'm sure I have many more days/weeks/months of reading it because there is so much to learn and share on this part two and part one. Congratulations talk-bassers on keeping it going and broadening it out to just about everything involved in playing bass! And just to go momentarily back to the original subject, I'm not sure yet if I'm a flatwound convert - I think it will take more playing before I have decided. Right now I still like round and flat depending on the gig and the stuff I'm playing which is everything from covers to original blues in a duo and a blues band! Keep it up, I love it!!
Played rounds for years playing rock cover tunes. I always thought flats were too dark, muddy and dead sounding.
After doing some recording and wondering how to get some of the great tones on many recordings, I did some research.
Then I went out and bought some TI flats
40-95. Did a couple recording tests and I said that's it!
Here's a sample played with sans amp into an LA610 solo tube pre
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Passive Center HB/SC bridge PU layout with blend in the middle, treble half way down, played with fingers! Basswood body, rosewood neck. 1984 RB999 Ibanez.
I play live with the TI's using a pick and fingers. No problem with clarity, no cutting thru the mix needed. With the reduced squeak and harmonic overtones the pure tone just cuts thru. I'm converted.
I even do some ChiliPeppers slap with the TI's.
After doing some recording and wondering how to get some of the great tones on many recordings, I did some research.
Then I went out and bought some TI flats
40-95. Did a couple recording tests and I said that's it!
Here's a sample played with sans amp into an LA610 solo tube pre
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Passive Center HB/SC bridge PU layout with blend in the middle, treble half way down, played with fingers! Basswood body, rosewood neck. 1984 RB999 Ibanez.
I play live with the TI's using a pick and fingers. No problem with clarity, no cutting thru the mix needed. With the reduced squeak and harmonic overtones the pure tone just cuts thru. I'm converted.
I even do some ChiliPeppers slap with the TI's.
Nice recording Uhd. TI flats occupy their own special place in the Flatwound spectrum, as your recordings reveal. What I like about TI flats, which are really clear in your recording, is how they are full and present on the higher notes. With stainless steel strings you get a clear, beautiful singing tone up high, that pretty much gets buried. TI flats however, will ring right out. They are also capable of some growl on the lower notes. I think of them more like really dull roundwounds than traditional flats like Labella's. If you raise the action up on them, they will sound a LOT more traditional. I have used them in all different kinds of settings, and been amazed at how versatile they are.
Weird. When I did the switch from rounds to flats, I went with Chromes and found that my hand was getting stuck. Pretty tacky feeling. One month down the road, and they were the smoothest strings I've played. I think it had something to do with the coating on them.
and it will definitely have flats on it. Couple that with Ampeg, and....
I think the new 9050's are made by d'addario. They are not the same strings, but are lot more like Chromes than the old 9050's used to be.
To my dismay I have spent enough money in search of the right flatwound strings to buy a nice bass. My only consolation is that in the long run its cheaper to use flats because they dont need to be changed very often.
I have a great respect and love for the tone of Pyramids and LaBellas, but I just cant learn to like the feature of consistently warmer B and E strings relative to the others. I also must add that Max at Pyramid was exceptionally helpful to me in putting together a custom set.
Usually we hear the issue described as a "dead E string", but in my mind the problem is a tone imbalance across strings. I sometimes wonder if this is caused by too much emphasis on balanced tension vs balanced tone. Some folks like balanced tone while others want balanced tension. Not sure if you can have both at the same time.
I actually prefer the warmer sound of the bigger strings and have tried to warm up the others by going to custom sets with heavier gauge A, D & G stings. I assembled a custom set Pyramids that I liked quite well (110, 90, 70, 50) but after breaking several D and G strings (most recently yesterday) it has become unaffordable.
I would probably keep trying but have found that GHS flats are much cheaper and more balanced (tonewise) so for now they are my go-to for the vintage tone. I have them on two semi-hollows and they sound great. They are stainless - not quite as thumpy as the Pyramid nickels, so I may go back but for now they do the job.
For a bright tone almost like half-rounds (again balanced across all stings) Ernie Ball, Daddario and Roto77 all seem to fit the bill but I prefer Ernie Ball Group Is for the Ray and the J.
I have a great respect and love for the tone of Pyramids and LaBellas, but I just cant learn to like the feature of consistently warmer B and E strings relative to the others. I also must add that Max at Pyramid was exceptionally helpful to me in putting together a custom set.
Usually we hear the issue described as a "dead E string", but in my mind the problem is a tone imbalance across strings. I sometimes wonder if this is caused by too much emphasis on balanced tension vs balanced tone. Some folks like balanced tone while others want balanced tension. Not sure if you can have both at the same time.
I actually prefer the warmer sound of the bigger strings and have tried to warm up the others by going to custom sets with heavier gauge A, D & G stings. I assembled a custom set Pyramids that I liked quite well (110, 90, 70, 50) but after breaking several D and G strings (most recently yesterday) it has become unaffordable.
I would probably keep trying but have found that GHS flats are much cheaper and more balanced (tonewise) so for now they are my go-to for the vintage tone. I have them on two semi-hollows and they sound great. They are stainless - not quite as thumpy as the Pyramid nickels, so I may go back but for now they do the job.
For a bright tone almost like half-rounds (again balanced across all stings) Ernie Ball, Daddario and Roto77 all seem to fit the bill but I prefer Ernie Ball Group Is for the Ray and the J.
What do you mean by "Twisted?" Do mean at the manufacturing level, or the installing on the bass level?
This is an installation issue. What happens is that the ball end binds, and when wrapped around the tuner, the string spins. If the ball end is bound, then the string can't relieve that tension, and then it won't vibrate correctly when plucked. To check this, loosen the suspect string until the ball end is free, then re-tension.
I don't explain this really well, but drop a line to Jason at Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop... and he'll explain it really well.
I don't explain this really well, but drop a line to Jason at Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop... and he'll explain it really well.
Basically, a twisted string happens when the string is wrapped around the post and the ball end is not able to freely spin. Even if the string is twisted in one "twist" it can effect the strings performance.
This is common on instruments where you have to thread the string through the bridge, or through body. And this happens with all string types not just flats.
If you have an instrument where the ball end wont spin freely due to any angles the string may pass over you need to do this. To fix, basically you need to remove the string from the tuning post and make sure the string will just lay in place, and then put it back on the post without twisting it one way or another.
You may find that once the string is off the post the string part that was inserted facing down is now facing up, this would mean the string was twisted by at least half. so rotate the ball half a spin so the string lays naturally with the end of the string that goes into the tuner facing down, insert it into the post and wind it up (dont wrap the string around the post).
I hope I didn't confuse any... there are a lot of different ways the string can be twisted depending on the instrument configuration.
good luck!
This is common on instruments where you have to thread the string through the bridge, or through body. And this happens with all string types not just flats.
If you have an instrument where the ball end wont spin freely due to any angles the string may pass over you need to do this. To fix, basically you need to remove the string from the tuning post and make sure the string will just lay in place, and then put it back on the post without twisting it one way or another.
You may find that once the string is off the post the string part that was inserted facing down is now facing up, this would mean the string was twisted by at least half. so rotate the ball half a spin so the string lays naturally with the end of the string that goes into the tuner facing down, insert it into the post and wind it up (dont wrap the string around the post).
I hope I didn't confuse any... there are a lot of different ways the string can be twisted depending on the instrument configuration.
good luck!
