Confessions of a Flatwound convert...

[Jehos]

Well, this thread was getting me convinced, and the link a couple pages back to a video of a Warwick Corvette strung up with flats pushed me over the edge. I've got a gig tonight so I won't make it out to pick up some Chromes, but I should be able to snag some tomorrow night and get them on for the gig Saturday.

I've been listening carefully to a ton of my music now and I'm shocked at how much I *can't* point to and say "definitely rounds".

 

[engedi1]

Love this thread, full of insightful comments from guys who love bass!

My first experience with flatwounds came when I was all psyched up by the guys at the Dudepit to put some TI Flats on my Fender P Bass Plus. I kept the rounds on my Lakland 55-94. Soon after I moved to Nashville, I fell in love with a Sadowsky M-24 (Metro, All natural) I got this bass and still used Dr Highbeams or Sadowsky strings. I was playing 6 nights a week with a rock/americana band that had an acoustic guitar player, electric guitar, and a very loud power drummer. We cut all of our demos using the DR Highbeams, and I thought my sad sounded great.

However, live tone was always a struggle. I could never cut through, or the band always thought I was too loud.
Then, for some unknown reason, maybe an old talkbass thread, I moved the TI Flats over to my Sad. My band was blown away at the first rehearsal. The singer/songwriter loved the warmer tone and forbade me to ever switch back to rounds. Also, having smallish hands, and playing very technically, the low Tension on the TI's cured my wrist problems within a week or two.

What our band leader noticed, was that I had more dymanics and sensitivity with our playing. Unfortunately, this band broke up before I could do any gigs with the flats.

My rig is a EA I AMP800 through two Aguilar GS 112. I use a rackmounted BBE sonic maximizer to add sparkle and a BlackFinger Tube compressor. When I play this combo through a pick, especially through an aggro bass like the Sad M5-24 I don't think anyone misses the rounds at all.

My next band played all Phish, Widespread Panic and Dead covers. All the amazing bass players in these bands play rounds, through a Modulus Quantum, using a pick.

The hardcore Phishheads in this bands never once cared or noticed that I was using flats, even on songs that required bass chords and solos. The TI's really sing up high, and the compressor adds back a lot of sustain. I just used a pick on 90% of this material.

My project after this was a hard rock cover band and I still kept on the flats. This band was so loud that I put some rounds on at this time to "cut through" I could hear myself easier with rounds, but how it sounded to the audience I don't know.

Now I am jamming with blues and r and b guys. I have had SIT's on my Sad and noticed how much better another bass player sounded at the jam session on a Hoffner Beatle Bass with Chromes. After thinking about this for a while, I realized the problem was that I needed my TI's back!

So I have come full circle. I love the TI's. Just put them on yesterday, and I can already feel more punch in my gut even with the bass not plugged in! There really is more fundamental with Flats, even with brand new TI's.

I am however, wondering how TI's compare to Sadowsky flats. I am not a mellow player, but like to dig in live. The TI's will bottom out, especially when picked hard. I can't handle the Bridge Suspension cables that some Flatwounds are. My preferred Feel is 100.80 45 65 hex core steels or nickels of any brand-tension wise that is.
Does anyone have any comments on the tension of the Sadowsky's? I notice they have a light tension. Has anyone tried the super light Chromes?

 

[engedi1]

Just a sidenote here...

I did record a smooth jazz album for a guitarist friend of mine, and I used the M5-24 direct in the board with SIT rounds. This was slapping and high melodic stuff. Sounded great on the recording. I am wondering if rounds give the best recorded tone, and flats the best live tone?

Also, I love the TI Flat B string. Talk about punch! If instead of playing licks in the first position, if you play them on The B string higher up the neck, you can really nail the vintage tone.

 

[Gearhead43]

I've tried just about all of the different flatwound strings over the years and my favorites are Labella (the ones that are .049-.109) and Sadowsky. Labella has the real old-school sound for R&B and Blues, the most punch, decay, and not a lot of high end, relatively speaking. The Sadowskys are a little brighter, smoother and more sustaining, but they are still somewhat in the old-school catagory.

I've used Chromes but I find them to be too bright and hard-edged sounding. I don't like the feel of these as much either, they feel stiff. Thomastik's TI flats are an interesting string, but totally different than old-school Labellas. The only bass I really liked them on was a fretless. They are just too light in tension for me to be able to dig in and play the way I want to. Also, they have more of a mid-heavy sustaining sound, and not as much "bump" up front.

I know many players like the newer flats like Chromes and TIs, but to me they're sort of a different animal than "regular" flats. Just my opinion so hold the hate mail. Other flats that I consider to be "regular" are Fender, Rotosound, and Ernie Ball

Currently I've got Sadowskys on my Fender American Standard Jazz Bass, and LaBellas on my old Tokai Hardpuncher P-Bass. I love them both! The Jazz w/Sadowskys is easier to play and more versatile. The Tokai w/Labellas is the total Jamerson sound, not as versatile, but funky!

+1

I agree with Bobby here about the Chromes not sounding like the old-school flats do. Chromes are the anti-flat sounding flat to me. I like them alot, though, but if you are looking specifically for that really old-school Motown / Stax flat sound you might want La Bellas or even Rotos (once they break in).

 

[p-bass]

I have used both the D'Addario and Ernie Ball Flatwounds, and find them to be the same string...I have to laugh at alot of this. The Chromes do start out bright for a flatwound ,but mellow into a typical sounding flatwound after they break in.

 

[thudfromafar]

I do think generally, flats make the band sound a bit better. But... after playing the chromes for 6+ months, I put a set of SS Lo-Riders back on my stingray yesterday, and I'm really glad I did. The band still sounds good, but I sound much better and am inspired to play in different ways, melodically. And I can still roll off a lot of treble and hi-mids to get maybe 80% of the thump or old school sound from before (if I ever feel like it).

Ok guys, I lied. After playing several more times in the mix, I went back to my flats and I don't see myself changing now. At least not for my rock cover band. I'll have other strings on my other basses for different styles.

 

[lmfreeman9]

+1

I agree with Bobby here about the Chromes not sounding like the old-school flats do. Chromes are the anti-flat sounding flat to me. I like them alot, though, but if you are looking specifically for that really old-school Motown / Stax flat sound you might want La Bellas or even Rotos (once they break in).

Pyramid Golds have that vintage-old skool sound nailed.

 

[lmfreeman9]

Love this thread, full of insightful comments from guys who love bass!

My first experience with flatwounds came when I was all psyched up by the guys at the Dudepit to put some TI Flats on my Fender P Bass Plus. I kept the rounds on my Lakland 55-94. Soon after I moved to Nashville, I fell in love with a Sadowsky M-24 (Metro, All natural) I got this bass and still used Dr Highbeams or Sadowsky strings. I was playing 6 nights a week with a rock/americana band that had an acoustic guitar player, electric guitar, and a very loud power drummer. We cut all of our demos using the DR Highbeams, and I thought my sad sounded great.

However, live tone was always a struggle. I could never cut through, or the band always thought I was too loud.
Then, for some unknown reason, maybe an old talkbass thread, I moved the TI Flats over to my Sad. My band was blown away at the first rehearsal. The singer/songwriter loved the warmer tone and forbade me to ever switch back to rounds. Also, having smallish hands, and playing very technically, the low Tension on the TI's cured my wrist problems within a week or two.

What our band leader noticed, was that I had more dymanics and sensitivity with our playing. Unfortunately, this band broke up before I could do any gigs with the flats.

My rig is a EA I AMP800 through two Aguilar GS 112. I use a rackmounted BBE sonic maximizer to add sparkle and a BlackFinger Tube compressor. When I play this combo through a pick, especially through an aggro bass like the Sad M5-24 I don't think anyone misses the rounds at all.

My next band played all Phish, Widespread Panic and Dead covers. All the amazing bass players in these bands play rounds, through a Modulus Quantum, using a pick.

The hardcore Phishheads in this bands never once cared or noticed that I was using flats, even on songs that required bass chords and solos. The TI's really sing up high, and the compressor adds back a lot of sustain. I just used a pick on 90% of this material.

My project after this was a hard rock cover band and I still kept on the flats. This band was so loud that I put some rounds on at this time to "cut through" I could hear myself easier with rounds, but how it sounded to the audience I don't know.

Now I am jamming with blues and r and b guys. I have had SIT's on my Sad and noticed how much better another bass player sounded at the jam session on a Hoffner Beatle Bass with Chromes. After thinking about this for a while, I realized the problem was that I needed my TI's back!

So I have come full circle. I love the TI's. Just put them on yesterday, and I can already feel more punch in my gut even with the bass not plugged in! There really is more fundamental with Flats, even with brand new TI's.

I am however, wondering how TI's compare to Sadowsky flats. I am not a mellow player, but like to dig in live. The TI's will bottom out, especially when picked hard. I can't handle the Bridge Suspension cables that some Flatwounds are. My preferred Feel is 100.80 45 65 hex core steels or nickels of any brand-tension wise that is.
Does anyone have any comments on the tension of the Sadowsky's? I notice they have a light tension. Has anyone tried the super light Chromes?

Sadowskys tension is medium, similar to LaBella FS.

 

[ProfGumby]

I have used both the D'Addario and Ernie Ball Flatwounds, and find them to be the same string...I have to laugh at alot of this. The Chromes do start out bright for a flatwound ,but mellow into a typical sounding flatwound after they break in.

It would not surprise me. If you believe what webstrings says -
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Who Actually Makes Strings?:
For those of you who are still in the dark about who makes guitar strings, lets just say that there are only a handful of companies that actually manufacture strings. Most of today's string labels have one of these string factories manufacture strings for them and they simply put their label on them. These branded strings are then sold to a distributor and then to a store or perhaps a catalog, everyone makes money along the way (we can't fault them for this, everyone needs to make a living). Strings go through many hands before they end up on your instrument.

If only a few places make all the strings, it would be very likely to get very similar strings from different brands.

 

[BaldBass]

+1

I agree with Bobby here about the Chromes not sounding like the old-school flats do. Chromes are the anti-flat sounding flat to me. I like them alot, though, but if you are looking specifically for that really old-school Motown / Stax flat sound you might want La Bellas or even Rotos (once they break in).

This is possibly the most interesting thread I have ever read here at Talkbass. I've been playing bass for 35 years plus, and have always been a flatwound guy. Every new bass I get gets a string change before it's played. Usually with the a fore mentioned La Bellas.

 

[Gearhead43]

This is possibly the most interesting thread I have ever read here at Talkbass. I've been playing bass for 35 years plus, and have always been a flatwound guy. Every new bass I get gets a string change before it's played. Usually with the a fore mentioned La Bellas.

I play mostly old-school music on electric bass (I play upright alot too) , Soul, Reggae, and old school Rock n Roll and for me, flats are THE sound.

I am using some new Roto 77s right now and they are still pretty zingy on the P-bass, but I like the higher tension and feel. They'll mellow out after a while though, just gotta get em dirty!

I haven't had a set of LaBellas in quite a while and may grab some for my new J bass.

I like how the higher tension flats feel, they don't flop at all and make staccato playing easier for me. I use alot of left-hand muting to get that thumpy Soul bassline sound and these flats sound very cool for that.

 

[dagrev]

I'm really finding it difficult to believe, but I'm really tempted to cut the rounds off several more basses. After playing this weekend with rounds (on a Lakland 44-02), I am even more turned off by the hollowness (for lack of a better word) of rounds.

I'm not sure the 44-02 should get them and a few other basses like a Ric and MMSR 4 and SR5, but I'm beginning to wonder.

Just ordered some LaBella Flats 760s to give them a whirl.

As fellow TBer vespasian1 said in another thread I ran across: Go with flats. That's what basses came with, once upon a time, when men were men, women were women, and basses sounded like basses.

 

[engedi1]

Thanks for the words on the Sadowsky flats. I need to try them soon, to explore brite flats with a higher tension than the TI's. Until then, I am getting used to the tension, and enjoying being able to play some tough licks with less effort.

My usual gig on Sunday didn't happen, but I hope to play out live this Thursday, and have a live band review of my Sadowsky with TI's. I have been practicing alot to acclimate myself to the lower tension. I am getting used to it. I am not sure these sound like traditional flatwounds, the lower notes on the A and E string have a nice growly tone to them rather than a thump. Sofar I am really digging it.

 

[Jehos]

Checking back in--I got the Chromes on my Warwick Fortress One last night.

Oh. My. God.

You all weren't kidding, new the Chromes are about as bright as rounds, just in a different way. All the midrange presence is there, just less in the highs. They are *definitely* the right strings to use as an introduction to flats--the sound isn't as different from rounds as you'd expect, and the tension of light-gauge Chromes is very similar to the rounds I had on before (no idea what brand, they came with the bass).

The biggest difference though is the feel. The flats are so smooth and fast with just the right tension and no string noise. It made me instantly want to groove. I didn't realize I was fighting the strings a bit to slide up and down the neck, but once the flats went on it was like butter. "Silky smooth" (think Zohan) is a good description.

I'm totally hooked. I can't wait to gig with these. I'm definitely buying a set to put on my other Warwick as well, and I need to track down a 6-string set for my Ibanez 506. I can't wait for the strings to settle down too, I want to see if they mellow out some, otherwise I might switch to Sadowskys. I love the feel of the flats, but the Chromes are a little mid-rangy for my tastes.

 

[JSK5String]

Checking back in--I got the Chromes on my Warwick Fortress One last night.

Oh. My. God.

You all weren't kidding, new the Chromes are about as bright as rounds, just in a different way. All the midrange presence is there, just less in the highs. They are *definitely* the right strings to use as an introduction to flats--the sound isn't as different from rounds as you'd expect, and the tension of light-gauge Chromes is very similar to the rounds I had on before (no idea what brand, they came with the bass).

The biggest difference though is the feel. The flats are so smooth and fast with just the right tension and no string noise. It made me instantly want to groove. I didn't realize I was fighting the strings a bit to slide up and down the neck, but once the flats went on it was like butter. "Silky smooth" (think Zohan) is a good description.

I'm totally hooked. I can't wait to gig with these. I'm definitely buying a set to put on my other Warwick as well, and I need to track down a 6-string set for my Ibanez 506. I can't wait for the strings to settle down too, I want to see if they mellow out some, otherwise I might switch to Sadowskys. I love the feel of the flats, but the Chromes are a little mid-rangy for my tastes.

He he! The flats kool-aid doesn't taste too bad, does it?!? No bitter beer face here! I'm totaly digging my chromes in the full band setting, especially now that I've had them on for about six months, they just sound better every time I pick up my J. I NEVER would have left a set of rounds on my bass for over a month before they started sounding like a wet fart instead of a bass. How in the heck do flats sound better with age and rounds don't?!?!?

 

[engedi1]

Just wanted to post an update here...I had my first live experience last night with th TI flats on my Sadowksy M5-24. This was just at a little blues jam in downtown Nashville. Unfortunately I had to use the house rig, which was uber midrangey and bright and a little honky. Nevertheless, I thought my bass sounded great and I got a ton of compliments from everyone else. Of course the Sadowksy is a great bass, and I usually get compliments no matter what the strings are.
However, I will say that these strings allow such a great and righteous fingerstyle tone, even being new and still a little zingy. On a couple of rock n roll tunes, I got my pick out, and got a great, aggressive thump that really fit the tunes.
I would love to try chromes on this bass, as chromes sound like my kind of flats. Maybe I'll try the chromes on my G&L L2500 once my refret is finished.
Others have said they find the TI's sticky. I have not noticed this at all, but was slip sliding away all night. maybe I just have really dry hands...
I was reading an interview with Ben Kenney of Incubus who plays flats on most of his basses, and he said something really insightful...He said that modern, high quality basses have enough sustain and tone to where you can play flats in an intense band like incubus and it sounds really great. I couldn't agree more. The other bass player at the jam was playing a Fender Precision with J pickup and a preamp and he was strung with Fender Flats. He also sounded really terrific!
My review of TI Flats on the super Modern, EMG Humbucker equipped Sadowsky M5-24 is a big super thumbs up.
One last thought. Acoustically, the B string sounded dead to me compared to the unamped volume of the other strings. Through the amp, holy cow! It sounded incredible. Didn't matter if I was playing on the 9-12 fret on the b, or playing low C's and D's this string really thumps! It had the perfect amount of sustain. Sometime, the low b string on an active 5 can be overwhelming in its bassy power, but the decay of this string allows you to use it more often, without drowning the room in mud. Just fantastic!

 

[Billnc]

The B on TI's in my opinion takes a little while to settle in. I had to replace the G string, new TI's ain't the greatest! But after they settle in tone heaven. I agree with flats and active basses too.

 

[Gawd]

I had a set of TI flats on my fretless for a while. I loved them, except for the B, it always sounded very dull and too boomy. The other strings sounded great, a perfect balance of mids and bass, with just enought highs. But the B just bothered me, so I've switched back to rounds now.

 

[gregmerrill]

Getting rid of all those overtones from roundwound will give you much more punch where you can plow thru the mix without losing your bottom. Kind of like the upright that gets that thud sounds that anchors the band so nicely. If you want to keep your rounds you might want to learn how to palm mute because your correct those overtones will disapate in a sea of instruments. Can you say James Jamerson?

 

[Xolair]

Have used 2 different sets of Rotosound RS77LD's and currently on Fender 9050 ML's. Might put my Rotos back on sometime, though.

I like the Rotosounds and there was bit of a zing in the very beginning, but they indeed seem to go dead-ish rather quickly. No harm (necessarily) in getting more low-end to my sound as the strings get thumpier etc. But, that's one of the points for me on getting the Rotos, to get that brighter tone that'd last relatively long and eventually mellow out. Probably will try some D'Addario Chromes in the future, as they seem to be similar to the Rotos in sound and such. Hopefully they'd keep the initial brightness a bit longer as well.

The Fenders, on the other hand, are a lot darker sounding and no real brightness there anymore. I like their sound also, in a way, but yet I long for a brighter tone. Makes me want to have more basses now...