Confused about bass frequencies and studio monitors

[axelknight]

I'm new to recording and am trying to figure out how to choose a pair of monitors. I'm currently in a 250 to 300ft2 hexagon log cabin. Untreated I suppose, no foam on the walls. Using a laptop with studio one artist, a Presonus USB 96 interface, and some fancy Grado Labs SR325 headphones. Music style would be aggressive bass driven rock. Standard tuning on a four string bass. I've found recording in headphones to be awkward and distracting. Here's my question: Based on the above information, what are the cheapest/smallest monitors I can get away with and still get good low end? Thanks

 

[DirtDog]

Are you recording you bass direct? Eg plugged right into your interface or are you miking a bass cab?

 

[JRA]

what are the cheapest/smallest monitors I can get away with and still get good low end?

if you read your question back to yourself = you could get a laugh, too! studio monitors are not made to be used to get "good low end" --- think about it: a good reference monitor system should allow the mixer/engineer to hear the whole spectrum in the music at hand in an accurate way. as soon as you demand a specific low-end response from a reference source = you're abusing their functionality!

you'd be better off with a bass rig if you want "good low end." if you want to do some serious mixing = lots of affordable choices! you may also want to invest some time into the study of what makes a good mix (for your style of music) and how to achieve that. good luck!

 

[axelknight]

Are you recording you bass direct? Eg plugged right into your interface or are you miking a bass cab?

Direct

 

[And I]

Cheapest / smallest being your criteria... you're not really setting yourself up for success. Don't worry about getting low bass extension from studio monitors, use your headphones to check that. Monitors should be accurate (though cheap ones probably won't be), not bass-heavy. Speakers can get as cheap as you want them to be if you're not concerned with quality. What is your actual budget?

 

[axelknight]

if you read your question back to yourself = you could get a laugh, too! studio monitors are not made to be used to get "good low end" --- think about it: a good reference monitor system should allow the mixer/engineer to hear the whole spectrum in the music at hand in an accurate way. as soon as you demand a specific low-end response from a reference source = you're abusing their functionality!

you'd be better off with a bass rig if you want "good low end." if you want to do some serious mixing = lots of affordable choices! you may also want to invest some time into the study of what makes a good mix (for your style of music) and how to achieve that. good luck!

I read that the low E of a four string at standard tuning is around 41hz. I've also read that it's around 60. The specs on cheap/small (less than $200) monitors don't get down to 41hz as far as I could see, but sometimes got down to 60hz. This is why the confusion.

 

[Roland GR 88]

You get what you pay for. Avoid the smallest computer style speakers like I-Loud and Mackie CR-3’s. Stretch your budget as far as you can. Any speaker pair @ 400.00 or more will sound very good. Studio monitors aren’t fragile and a decent set will give you all the bottom end you need to hear. If you can find and test a used set there are deals to be had and a passive pair with a small power amp are where the real bargains are. People are practically giving passive monitors away. One of my setups is an Art power amp and a pair of used Event 20/20’s bought for 100.00. Plus, if you blow a component in the amp you don’t have to throw out a speaker with it. Which happened to me last week and led to the Event’s coming home.
Good luck.

 

[axelknight]

Cheapest / smallest being your criteria... you're not really setting yourself up for success. Don't worry about getting low bass extension from studio monitors, use your headphones to check that. Monitors should be accurate (though cheap ones probably won't be), not bass-heavy. Speakers can get as cheap as you want them to be if you're not concerned with quality. What is your actual budget?

I'd like to spend $300 or less. I watched a video where the host talked about needing 8 inch monitors for a good bass response. I realize that would put me we'll over my budget. Starting to think this will get expensive!! I'm new to recording, so I didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get my feet wet. I guess I was hoping for a simple answer so I could just buy something and not think about it any more. The fancy headphones I inherited seem to be pretty good. Maybe I'll just stick it out with those.

 

[axelknight]

You get what you pay for. Avoid the smallest computer style speakers like I-Loud and Mackie CR-3’s. Stretch your budget as far as you can. Any speaker pair @ 400.00 or more will sound very good. Studio monitors aren’t fragile and a decent set will give you all the bottom end you need to hear. If you can find and test a used set there are deals to be had and a passive pair with a small power amp are where the real bargains are. People are practically giving passive monitors away. One of my setups is an Art power amp and a pair of used Event 20/20’s bought for 100.00. Plus, if you blow a component in the amp you don’t have to throw out a speaker with it. Which happened to me last week and led to the Event’s coming home.
Good luck.

Ok. Thanks for the info.

 

[nightchef]

I read that the low E of a four string at standard tuning is around 41hz. I've also read that it's around 60.

Unlike so many audio forum questions, this is one with a definite answer. At A=440, 41 Hz is indeed correct for the low bass E.

As far as bass extension, remember to check the specs carefully. One monitor brand might say it goes down to 40 Hz, but they're using a -6 or even -10 dB standard, while another that says it only goes down to 50 Hz might be using a -3 dB standard, and that monitor might measure at 40 Hz about the same as the others.

In your budget range, I'd forget about trying to get -3 dB or better at 40 Hz. About the cheapest monitors I know of that do that are the Focal Alpha 65s at about $800 the pair. You'd be surprised how quickly your ears will learn to extrapolate bass extension from the information the monitors are giving you. Just get a good, reasonably accurate pair of cheap monitors like JBL 305p's (-3 dB at 49 Hz, -10 at 43 Hz), plus a good frequency analysis plugin (Voxengo SPAN is free and excellent) to make sure there's nothing squirrelly going on below what your monitors are giving you. Use the headphones as a double-check. And remember, 95% of your listeners are hearing your stuff on systems with bass extension no better than yours.

 

[axelknight]

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[JRA]

I read that the low E of a four string at standard tuning is around 41hz. I've also read that it's around 60. The specs on cheap/small (less than $200) monitors don't get down to 41hz as far as I could see, but sometimes got down to 60hz. This is why the confusion.

I watched a video where the host talked about needing 8 inch monitors for a good bass response.

all reference monitors give that 20hz to 20khz frequency spread. some go lower and higher. so you will find your playback frequencies in any of them. i think you want to crank up your system and play back your tracks fairly loud = get large(r) ones!

 

[axelknight]

all reference monitors give that 20hz to 20khz frequency spread. some go lower and higher. so you will find your playback frequencies in any of them. i think you want to crank up your system and play back your tracks fairly loud = get large(r) ones!

I'd at least like the option to crank it up. When I made the post, I was genuinely confused. I also knew that if I got big monitors, there wouldn't be any issues. I think I was hoping someone would tell me what I wanted to hear. Which is, small and cheap is a fine substitute for large and more expensive.

 

[And I]

I'd like to spend $300 or less. I watched a video where the host talked about needing 8 inch monitors for a good bass response. I realize that would put me we'll over my budget. Starting to think this will get expensive!! I'm new to recording, so I didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get my feet wet. I guess I was hoping for a simple answer so I could just buy something and not think about it any more. The fancy headphones I inherited seem to be pretty good. Maybe I'll just stick it out with those.

The size of the driver is not the major factor that determines low frequency extension. You also don't want your studio monitor to sound bass heavy--you want it to be accurate. I would absolutely suggest a $300 pair of monitors (M-Audio BX5a for example) and to A/B your mixes with both headphones and speakers. Can you hear the big full low end you want in the headphones? Great. Check speakers. Is the bass too loud? Adjust the mix to find the happy medium. Mixing on headphones alone is a sure-fire way to get mixes that sound great only on headphones.

 

[JRA]

I think I was hoping someone would tell me what I wanted to hear. Which is, small and cheap is a fine substitute for large and more expensive.

all of us probably wish that was the case! small monitors work fine, but: they need to be close to you ("nearfield"), and they won't take a lot of power. in general: the larger they are = the farther away they can be and the more power they can take (or the more they come equipped with, i.e., powered monitors). but 'in the studio' we're not really trying to play loud, we're trying to play "true" (accurate!) so that we can hear the glory, and the problems --- so that we can "mix."

good luck with your choices and/or compromises!

 

[Pings Bass]

I read that the low E of a four string at standard tuning is around 41hz. I've also read that it's around 60. The specs on cheap/small (less than $200) monitors don't get down to 41hz as far as I could see, but sometimes got down to 60hz. This is why the confusion.

Low E on a bass guitar has a fundamental of E1, 41.204 Hz. Many bass amps roll off well above that frequency but it still sounds full. Why?

What you hear is an upper harmonic series, and your brain fills in the fundamental. If you record direct and look at an E played on your bass, you'll see it's mostly producing the upper harmonic series. The fundamental is lower amplitude.

Keep in mind a 20Hz - 20KHz response on any speaker is a bit of a fudge; you've got to ask where it is -3db. That's usually quite a bit higher than 20Hz. There's a lot of energy required to reproduce those low frequencies at any volume, so usually it's handled by a dedicated subwoofer if you really want to move air down low like that.

In my home studio, I have studio monitors at the mix desk and a couple 12" powered mons on poles and/or the floor as rehearsal monitors. They crank pretty hard and were relatively cheap compared to reference quality studio monitors. I also have headphones, and never master anything without listening to it on a crappy car stereo and any other consumer grade system I can access.

 

[Inky13]

I’m more interested in the log cabin! Pics?

 

[Killing Floor]

Can't speak for @JRA but maybe he's got you thinking in the right direction. Do you want to play this music back for your use or do you want to edit the music to be suitable for other people's use, i.e. ear phones, car audio, radio, YouTubes, etc?

And are you even allowed to use a laptop in a log cabin?

 

[chadds]

Can't speak for @JRA but maybe he's got you thinking in the right direction. Do you want to play this music back for your use or do you want to edit the music to be suitable for other people's use, i.e. ear phones, car audio, radio, YouTubes, etc?

And are you even allowed to use a laptop in a log cabin?

I know it’s like a ham sanny at a vegan fest. Wait sorry that was type casting. ...like a Prius at a tractor pull.

Wait deeply kidding here. We need to respect each and everyone.

When the OP comes out with the tracks we will be amazed at the inspiration in the content!

 

[sleepingEB0]

I'd like to spend $300 or less. I watched a video where the host talked about needing 8 inch monitors for a good bass response. I realize that would put me we'll over my budget. Starting to think this will get expensive!! I'm new to recording, so I didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get my feet wet. I guess I was hoping for a simple answer so I could just buy something and not think about it any more. The fancy headphones I inherited seem to be pretty good. Maybe I'll just stick it out with those.

JBL mkiiis are perfect and the best tbh fam.

you’ll want the 8s for bass or plan on adding the sub if you go smaller but it’s all good