Confused about difference in instructional books

[Keith Favara]

Hi.......and thanks in advance for helping me out with this. I have pretty much just been using bass tabs to try to play some songs, but I'm now thinking it would be good to get something that gives me some kind of explanation as to how the original bass player of the song came up with that bassline. I have absolutely no idea how to come up with anything on my own and think it would be pretty cool if at some point I could do it myself. So i was looking into Bass books on Amazon and I'm kinda confused on two very basic, general terms and i attempted to search for the difference in these two terms and I couldn't find it. I'm talking about "Bass Method" and "Music Theory for the Bass". I always kinda assumed these terms meant the same thing, but the little bit of info that they give you about the two most popular books on Amazon make it sound like they are different. Maybe the method book teaches you to read music notation and helps you learn the neck of the bass as to where the theory book includes that but goes into more depth on other things?? I really don't know. They don't let me see the table to contents for these books and no reviews really say exactly what they are learning from each book. Can anyone clear this up for me?? The two books are :
Music Theory for the Bass Player: A Comprehensive and Hands-on Guide to Playing with More Confidence and Freedom


Hal Leonard Bass Method - Complete Edition: Books 1, 2 and 3 Bound Together in One Easy-to-Use Volume!

 

[noeinstein]

I have both books, and several others. Both are excellent, but different, approaches to the same goal; becoming a more knowledgeable and proficient player. IMO the trick is finding an approach or method of teaching that works for you and the way you learn, and committing to it.

It’s easy to get distracted from your goal (becoming a better player) by spending time and money in search of the best method (I’ve done that). Choose one book/method/teacher that appeals to you (doesn’t matter why) and commit.

I finally chose Ariane Cap. Now my vast collection of bass instruction books is for sale at a nominal price

 

[Lobster11]

When I was first starting out (20 years ago), I bought an assortment of books and worked through them more or less in parallel. I often found that if I didn't quite understand something in one book, or didn't understand why it was important to learn, I found the answer in another book. Also, I figured that anything that was covered similarly by multiple books was probably extra-important and I paid special attention to those.

 

[Malcolm35]

The Hal Leonard Bass Method books 1, 2 & 3 is what I grew up on. Well worth your time.

Bass Theory is bass theory - or put another way music theory is the theory of music. Why certain things work together and why certain things do not fit together.

Bass methods are how we make music, they may or may not tell why certain things work. For example bass methods would tell you to follow the chords and play the root note of the chord on the first beat of the measure. Then if the song gives you room add a 5. It would then give you all kinds or charts of the fingering necessary to accomplish that, but may not tell you why a root-5 was a good choice.

Methods tell you how to do it and theory tells you why it worked.

Best instructor I ever had would give me sheet music on a song and also a paper on what theory was being used in this specific song. With out the theory paper I could play the song, but not know why it sounded good.

Like you are now with tab. You can play the song, but have no idea of what you just did. Here is a good paper on theory. http://www.lifesmith.com/VHS Web/Music Theory - Basic Level.pdf Spend a part of your practice time on both method and theory. Why? When the guitar guys start talking about capoing on the 3rd fret and play in G you know what they are saying, and why.

Good luck.

 

[kevindahl]

Hi.......and thanks in advance for helping me out with this. I have pretty much just been using bass tabs to try to play some songs, but I'm now thinking it would be good to get something that gives me some kind of explanation as to how the original bass player of the song came up with that bassline. I have absolutely no idea how to come up with anything on my own and think it would be pretty cool if at some point I could do it myself. So i was looking into Bass books on Amazon and I'm kinda confused on two very basic, general terms and i attempted to search for the difference in these two terms and I couldn't find it. I'm talking about "Bass Method" and "Music Theory for the Bass". I always kinda assumed these terms meant the same thing, but the little bit of info that they give you about the two most popular books on Amazon make it sound like they are different. Maybe the method book teaches you to read music notation and helps you learn the neck of the bass as to where the theory book includes that but goes into more depth on other things?? I really don't know. They don't let me see the table to contents for these books and no reviews really say exactly what they are learning from each book. Can anyone clear this up for me?? The two books are :
Music Theory for the Bass Player: A Comprehensive and Hands-on Guide to Playing with More Confidence and Freedom


Hal Leonard Bass Method - Complete Edition: Books 1, 2 and 3 Bound Together in One Easy-to-Use Volume!

I don't think this is the best way to learn how to play music. Tabs I mean.

Tabs don't teach you the rhythm and if you are only using tabs and not your ear then your learning curve will be much steeper. I can't comment on any of the methods because I am not familiar with them. When I started to learn bass I would attempt to learn parts by ear. I wasn't very good at playing it note for note so I would have to come up with my own lines that sounded good, to me, playing along with the recording.

 

[Keith Favara]

I have both books, and several others. Both are excellent, but different, approaches to the same goal; becoming a more knowledgeable and proficient player. IMO the trick is finding an approach or method of teaching that works for you and the way you learn, and committing to it.

It’s easy to get distracted from your goal (becoming a better player) by spending time and money in search of the best method (I’ve done that). Choose one book/method/teacher that appeals to you (doesn’t matter why) and commit.

I finally chose Ariane Cap. Now my vast collection of bass instruction books is for sale at a nominal price

Thanks so much for your reply. I am kinda leaning towards the book that Ariane Cap book at this moment. Probably going to pull the trigger pretty soon. Once again......thanks for your reply.

 

[Keith Favara]

I don't think this is the best way to learn how to play music. Tabs I mean.

Tabs don't teach you the rhythm and if you are only using tabs and not your ear then your learning curve will be much steeper. I can't comment on any of the methods because I am not familiar with them. When I started to learn bass I would attempt to learn parts by ear. I wasn't very good at playing it note for note so I would have to come up with my own lines that sounded good, to me, playing along with the recording.

Just wanted to say thanks for your reply. That's pretty interesting that when you started to learn bass you would learn by ear. That's another thing that I would love to learn how to do myself. So....were you already really familiar with how each note sounded when you first started?? Or did you have to drill it into your head how each sounded and then try to listen to the music and guess at what notes to play??

 

[Keith Favara]

The Hal Leonard Bass Method books 1, 2 & 3 is what I grew up on. Well worth your time.

Bass Theory is bass theory - or put another way music theory is the theory of music. Why certain things work together and why certain things do not fit together.

Bass methods are how we make music, they may or may not tell why certain things work. For example bass methods would tell you to follow the chords and play the root note of the chord on the first beat of the measure. Then if the song gives you room add a 5. It would then give you all kinds or charts of the fingering necessary to accomplish that, but may not tell you why a root-5 was a good choice.

Methods tell you how to do it and theory tells you why it worked.

Best instructor I ever had would give me sheet music on a song and also a paper on what theory was being used in this specific song. With out the theory paper I could play the song, but not know why it sounded good.

Like you are now with tab. You can play the song, but have no idea of what you just did. Here is a good paper on theory. http://www.lifesmith.com/VHS Web/Music Theory - Basic Level.pdf Spend a part of your practice time on both method and theory. Why? When the guitar guys start talking about capoing on the 3rd fret and play in G you know what they are saying, and why.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply and the link about music theory. I am leaning towards the music theory book for the bass, but after reading your comment maybe I'll get both book so that i have both method and theory. I'm still going to mix in song playing since I know myself and if it learning the note reading and theory is tedious for me I'm going to have a hard time sticking with it so i at least need something that is fun to go to.....and that's where the songs will come in. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[singlemalt]

I look for books that include audio of the exercises with standard notation. That way you can “read along” with the notation as you listen. Put the exercise audio on repeat, and read it as it goes by, get to where you can sing it (don’t worry about perfect pitch), then go to putting it under your fingers. It’s gotta be in your head first.

Your theory books will explain the subdivisions and rhythmic patterns. You’ll learn about how the keys are organized, scales, and chords.

Tab shows you where one guy thinks you should be putting your fingers, sometimes it’s right, sometimes not. You’ll play things differently as you progress. Its really weak on rhythm.

And that’s how you learn any new language, listening, reading, speaking. Then you repeat what you’ve heard, read, and understood.

You learn to compose your own bass lines by studying what the guys you like did in the styles you play.

Check out Mark at talkingbass.com for some great free lessons with notation.

 

[BadSanta1281]

I'm still a struggling newbie and I have both books.

The Hal Leonard series is what I was working on with my instructor before the COVID virus ended that. I think that a lot of instructors use this book with their students.

Ariana Cap's book still seems a bit above my head. I'm trying to work through Hal Leonard on my own before getting too deep into that one.

 

[Keith Favara]

Thanks to everyone and their replies.......I ordered both books just a little bit ago so my journey towards not only understanding the instrument better, but also just music in general is about to begin. I hope I'm ready. I'm kinda excited.....for the first time in my life earlier today I looked at some of the music symbols and notations in my tab book and was able to deciper how to play through a song. Had no idea how to navigate the terms D.S. al coda, To Coda and Coda. My guess was that you would just to get where it says "To coda" and then jump to the part that says "Coda". Then i would do that and be completely screwed and have no idea where to go. Now i realize that I had to play all the way through to D.S. al Coda then jump back to that sign that looks like an S with a slash through it..........play until i reach the To Coda and then jump to the part that says "Coda". That sounds crazy, but i listened to the song while looking at my Tab book(its a hybrid of tab and musical notation)and I looked it up and i think i at least have that part down now. If that's a part of theory or method then I am pretty excited about learning some more. Thanks again everyone......I appreciate all your replies. Stay safe.......and don't stop playing!!!

 

[Malcolm35]

Yes, songs are why we bought our first instrument. People do not ask us to play a scale, or arpeggio.

 

[james condino]

Page one, line one on every one of those books should read:

Books are useful, but find yourself a good teacher.

 

[noeinstein]

Thanks so much for your reply. I am kinda leaning towards the book that Ariane Cap book at this moment. Probably going to pull the trigger pretty soon. Once again......thanks for your reply.

FWIW, I decided to put my feet further in the water and take her "core principles" course. I'm in the middle of it now and finding it is keeping my interest.

 

[noeinstein]

Keep this page in your hip pocket.

 

[bbh]

Thanks to everyone and their replies.......I ordered both books just a little bit ago so my journey towards not only understanding the instrument better, but also just music in general is about to begin. I hope I'm ready. I'm kinda excited.....for the first time in my life earlier today I looked at some of the music symbols and notations in my tab book and was able to deciper how to play through a song. Had no idea how to navigate the terms D.S. al coda, To Coda and Coda. My guess was that you would just to get where it says "To coda" and then jump to the part that says "Coda". Then i would do that and be completely screwed and have no idea where to go. Now i realize that I had to play all the way through to D.S. al Coda then jump back to that sign that looks like an S with a slash through it..........play until i reach the To Coda and then jump to the part that says "Coda". That sounds crazy, but i listened to the song while looking at my Tab book(its a hybrid of tab and musical notation)and I looked it up and i think i at least have that part down now. If that's a part of theory or method then I am pretty excited about learning some more. Thanks again everyone......I appreciate all your replies. Stay safe.......and don't stop playing!!!

D.S., D.S. al Coda

 

[TrevorR]

Thanks to everyone and their replies.......I ordered both books just a little bit ago so my journey towards not only understanding the instrument better, but also just music in general is about to begin. I hope I'm ready. I'm kinda excited.....for the first time in my life earlier today I looked at some of the music symbols and notations in my tab book and was able to deciper how to play through a song. Had no idea how to navigate the terms D.S. al coda, To Coda and Coda. My guess was that you would just to get where it says "To coda" and then jump to the part that says "Coda". Then i would do that and be completely screwed and have no idea where to go. Now i realize that I had to play all the way through to D.S. al Coda then jump back to that sign that looks like an S with a slash through it..........play until i reach the To Coda and then jump to the part that says "Coda". That sounds crazy, but i listened to the song while looking at my Tab book(its a hybrid of tab and musical notation)and I looked it up and i think i at least have that part down now. If that's a part of theory or method then I am pretty excited about learning some more. Thanks again everyone......I appreciate all your replies. Stay safe.......and don't stop playing!!!

Yup, you worked it out correctly. It’s a notation convention derived from traditional (classical) music notation as a way of avoiding having to write out the same bit of tune twice over several pages. But knowing that in advance would save you a lot of confusion and time. A little example of why understanding a smattering of formal theory might not be essential to being a player, but it certainly doesn’t hurt.

“Dal Segno
D.S. al Coda., or Dal Segno, means “from the sign.” It directs the player to return to a spot earlier in the score that's marked by the symbol. If the marking says D.S. al Coda, then the player is supposed to play from there to a “To Coda” marking, then jump to a coda section at the end of the music.”​

 

[IamGroot]

D.S., D.S. al Coda

Reminds me of an old session player story.

Player reads the sheet music flawlessly but messes up on all the written instructions. Doesn't get a call back.

Asks why. "You read music great, but you don't read English well.

On first read through, note all those written instructions especially the one in fine print that says "Repeat 4 times".

 

[IamGroot]

I look for books that include audio of the exercises with standard notation. That way you can “read along” with the notation as you listen. Put the exercise audio on repeat, and read it as it goes by, get to where you can sing it (don’t worry about perfect pitch), then go to putting it under your fingers. It’s gotta be in your head first.

Your theory books will explain the subdivisions and rhythmic patterns. You’ll learn about how the keys are organized, scales, and chords.

Tab shows you where one guy thinks you should be putting your fingers, sometimes it’s right, sometimes not. You’ll play things differently as you progress. Its really weak on rhythm.

And that’s how you learn any new language, listening, reading, speaking. Then you repeat what you’ve heard, read, and understood.

You learn to compose your own bass lines by studying what the guys you like did in the styles you play.

Check out Mark at talkingbass.com for some great free lessons with notation.

+1

Lots of good advice on this thread including this post.

I want to reiterate what SingleMalt said about Tab. It shows one possible fingering, which may or may not work for you, depending on your fingering style. It may be totally bad. All tab should be suspect.

When you read notation, you eventually learn where to put your fingers automatically and use the tab as a back check.

 

[lark_z]

Just finishing up the Hal Leonard book here after maybe 3 months. I think it's great. The last section (ok - no - the last section is on slap/pop) is on creating lines from chord notations. Really informative, but you need to know what notes are in the chords to really make it work. So, you gotta churn through the rest first. Some of it is quite challenging, at least for me. But with time and repetition, it comes around.

Ariana's book is in the queue, but it's the Lost Art of Country Bass first for me.

I found a music training app for my phone to help me with the bass clef note reading. A few minutes here and there with that has helped a lot.

Yeah on the tab. That's all I did 20 years ago with my first bass venture. MP3's and tabs. Regret it now.