Considering New Rig

[fcleff]

Howdy. I am currently playing through an Ashdown Mag 300. Sometimes I use an Ashdown 210 (8ohms) while other times I use a Peavey Black Widow 115 (4ohms) with a 3500Hz crossover tweeter.

I’ve recently been considering getting a new head. Current contenders are an Ampeg PF500(new) or a GK 1001RB (used). I want more power for the metal project I am in.

Because of the mismatched impedance of the cabs I don’t run them together. And the Black Widow looks to have a 350w max. So would either of these heads be okay to run through either of these cabs? If not, what other options might the collective community recommend?

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[Jack]

Even a million watts won't go far throughb those cabs. Have you considered an Ashdown or Peavey 8x10" or similar?

 

[joel406]

Yes you need more speaker.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Do you just want more power, or do you want to be louder?
If you just want to be able to say, I've got a 500 watt amp, then that and the price of a cup of coffee will get you a cup of coffee. It won't be that much louder though.
If you want to be louder, pair up one of your cabs with another cab like it.

 

[fcleff]

I was kind of thinking this might be the case. I do have a Fender 212 (4ohm, JBL’s) that I could pair with the Black Widow. But it’s in a state of disrepair and I need more time to refinish it. I had also glanced at a Mesa Boogie that can handle a 2 ohm load (can’t quite remember what model) and pushed 750w.
So I want both: power and volume. Sometimes I feel like I get buried under the two 100w all-tube half stacks that the guitar players are using.
I’m wanting to play with my tone a bit more, too. For years I was a Jamerson style tone guy. Now, for the first time I’m playing with pedals and the nuances of EQ. So I’d like to have a rig that can do the growling, slightly overdriven sound for Black Metal and still be able to tweak it (possibly pare it down) for a more Texas rock tone in the other project.
The current rig is the amp and cabs listed above with:
Deluxe Bass Big Muff-MXR Envelope-Deluxe Memory Man with Hazarai (envelope and delay for certain fx only)
Highly modified Yamaha BB300 Low Range Fretless (BEAD)
Conklin GT5
Geddy CIJ Jazz
(I’ve been leaning heavily on the Yammie lately.)
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[moogieotter]

Invest in better speakers. That Ashdown will hit hard w a 6/8x10 or 2 4x10s or 2 2x12s.

 

[moogieotter]

Oh, Austin, TX has sick deals on CL. I’ll link some!

 

[moogieotter]

This TE 410 is a deal near you:

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There’s a GK 1001RB for $380 there too. An SWR GoLight 410 and heck a deal on a SWR 18!

Keep us posted!

 

[fcleff]

This TE 410 is a deal near you:

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There’s a GK 1001RB for $380 there too. An SWR GoLight 410 and heck a deal on a SWR 18!

Keep us posted!

Yep. I saw that GK (it’s the one I mentioned in the OP). Thanks for the other tips! I’ll check it all out.

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[Artman]

Ashdown 210 (8ohms)

Just stack another Ashdown 210 (8ohms) on top of the one that you already have. Maybe even stack them end on end like a 4x10 column. I think you will likely be surprised at how well you can hear yourself.
If you want to be absolutely certain, or if you just want to have tinnitus like me someday, sell your other cabs and get a couple of used 8ohm 4x10s.

 

[fcleff]

Just stack another Ashdown 210 (8ohms) on top of the one that you already have. Maybe even stack them end on end like a 4x10 column. I think you will likely be surprised at how well you can hear yourself.
If you want to be absolutely certain, or if you just want to have tinnitus like me someday, sell your other cabs and get a couple of used 8ohm 4x10s.

This may end up being the most likely option. Indeed, I have considered it already but I always enjoy the collective dialogue of the TalkBass community, especially when considering a major shake up in gear and tone. As for the tinnitus, I’ve had that covered for the last 4 decades (inner ear infection as a child caused damage).
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[popgadget]

So I want both: power and volume. Sometimes I feel like I get buried under the two 100w all-tube half stacks that the guitar players are using.

Adding power is not usually the best (or easiest) way to get louder. Adding displacement by different or additional speakers is a better path to follow. Also using more sensitive (Or efficient ) speakers will help as well.
Power alone is almost meaningless in the volume equation. However, having said that, there is no harm in having as much power as you can afford, but it alone won’t necessarily get you louder.

 

[fcleff]

Adding power is not usually the best (or easiest) way to get louder. Adding displacement by different or additional speakers is a better path to follow. Also using more sensitive (Or efficient ) speakers will help as well.
Power alone is almost meaningless in the volume equation. However, having said that, there is no harm in having as much power as you can afford, but it alone won’t necessarily get you louder.

Thanks for this. Over the years I have come to understand the relationship between ohms and watts but am less clear on how amp wattage relates to speaker wattage. The way I have always understood it is that your speakers should be rated/wired to handle your amp head wattage or more. So, for instance, I wouldn’t want to run a 500 or 1000 watt head through my Black Widow alone (rated at 350w). Correct?
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[popgadget]

Just because your amp might be capable of producing 1000 watts, you are not “running it through” a speaker by merely connecting it. If you operate the speaker at a reasonable volume, you would have no issue. I have often said that if you follow two simple rules, it’s unlikely that you will hurt your speakers regardless of how powerful your amp is.
Rule number 1- If you turn up and it starts to sound bad, turn it down, you are likely nearing the mechanical limit.
Rule number 2- If you turn up and it doesn’t appear to get louder, turn it down, you are likely nearing the thermal limit.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Rule number 3. If it gets quieter turn it way down before it thermals to completely silent.

 

[fcleff]

Just because your amp might be capable of producing 1000 watts, you are not “running it through” a speaker by merely connecting it. If you operate the speaker at a reasonable volume, you would have no issue. I have often said that if you follow two simple rules, it’s unlikely that you will hurt your speakers regardless of how powerful your amp is.
Rule number 1- If you turn up and it starts to sound bad, turn it down, you are likely nearing the mechanical limit.
Rule number 2- If you turn up and it doesn’t appear to get louder, turn it down, you are likely nearing the thermal limit.

But sometimes a reasonable volume means competing with louder rigs that may take me beyond a reasonable limit. So, based on that, would you mind briefly differentiating between mechanical and thermal limits? My assumption is that a mechanical limit is doing some kind of damage to the speaker and or amp head; thermal limit would mean that the amp is beginning to overheat (?).

 

[popgadget]

Simply put, the mechanical limit is when the cone’s excursion or travel exceeds its limits causing damage to its suspension or other mechanical components such as the tinsel wires. Usually a properly designed enclosure maintains control of the driver within the design frequency range to prevent this.
The Thermal limit is when you reach the voice coil’s ability to handle the applied power and covert it to motion of the cone. Beyond this point applied power creates more heat than motion.

 

[Dasgre0g]

Oh, Austin, TX has sick deals on CL. I’ll link some!

Lots of good deals on cabs in Austin. No one is buying though. I had an Ashdown ABM 410 available for months. Received one damn offer (and that was the one week I was offline). So definitely take advantage of some of those Austin deals, Fcleff.

 

[fcleff]

Lots of good deals on cabs in Austin. No one is buying though. I had an Ashdown ABM 410 available for months. Received one damn offer (and that was the one week I was offline). So definitely take advantage of some of those Austin deals, Fcleff.

Yeah I just found an Eden 210 that was in my price range but was 250w. I’m looking for 300w or more at 8ohms.

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[Dasgre0g]

Yeah I just found an Eden 210 that was in my price range but was 250w. I’m looking for 300w or more at 8ohms.

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What's your price range? I usually keep an eye on the local Austin stuff constantly (I may put my abm410 back up as well). There is also a decent Facebook group for used Austin gear called "Keep Austin Loud". They're pretty good about finding stuff too if you make an "In Search Of" post.