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Contracts FTW (long)

marmadaddy

Supporting Member
Oct 17, 2005
992
1,054
Rochester, NY
Had an interesting one tonight.

This is with my new band I've been with for a couple months. Seven piece party/dance band that's been around over twenty years still with three original members. Fantastic musicians all, and wonderful people.

So the gig is a private party at a swank mid-sized hotel in a well to do, artsy neighborhood. This being a professionally run band, there is a signed contract in place. Terms are very clear and reasonable. A deposit is required. It was received well in advance. So far so good. The balance must be paid in full prior to the band starting our performance. Cash or bank check. If it's bank check we need to receive it no less than twenty four hours prior to the event. All clearly spelled out in the signed contract. The singer (female) handles all business matters. She's really, really good at it.

The person who hired us and signed the contract is contacted earlier in the week to double check details and is reminded of the terms so there's no mix ups. Just being thorough. "No problem". Same thing the day of the party. "No problem".

Today we get there, set up. Beautiful venue, clearly a high budget event.
We're to play a few songs when the guest of honor arrives, break for dinner then finish with a couple hours of dance music. Great.

C=Client (wealthy late middle aged woman).
S=Singer

S: So we should take care of the balance now.
C: I forgot it at home. I'll pay you Monday.
(uh-oh. Sorry we're musicians. We know better. Don't care if you're wealthy. That don't mean jack.)
S: The contract states that we need the balance paid in full.
C: Really? You're serious?
S: Yes, I'm afraid so.
C: I'll send my son for it.
S: Ok, as a goodwill gesture, we'll play when the guest of honor arrives, but we need payment immediately after that.

We play about 30 minutes, head to another room in the hotel to get fed while the party has speeches and dinner.

Singer enters says the client is putting her off about payment and she was taken aside by a very large guy in a loud sport coat who tried to intimidate her into playing and getting paid at a later date. She's pissed. She is also the exact wrong person to pull this with. He is messing with forces he cannot comprehend. We discuss packing up and leaving.

We've fulfilled the terms of the contract and now we have some idiot who's watched GoodFellas too many times trying to act the hero by bullying a woman who is capable of grinding him down into a nub. Not acceptable. At this point the vibe is clearly "if we play without getting paid first, we'll never see the money without going to small claims."

Another guy comes into the room who's nice enough and clearly confused about exactly what's happening. He's just been sent in after being told the band is saying they won't play unless they're paid. The situation is explained to him. We have a contract, we need the terms of the contract to be adhered to. This isn't personal, it's just business. The contract is worded this way for a reason. He asks if we'll take a credit card. Um...no. He says he can get cash for maybe a third of what's owed. Sorry, but no. Payment in full.

GoodFellas then enters the room. Tries the intimidation thing, dropping F bombs. That's ignored completely. "What, you think we're not good for it?" This is shut down immediately. This is a business transaction. We have a signed contract. We have adhered to it. We expect the terms to be met. He tried telling us he owns the hotel. It's getting more ridiculous by the second. He eventually leaves.

Previous nice guy comes in with some cash. It's counted. Not enough, short by hundreds of dollars. "Yes we're really going to hold out for the full amount."

Goodfellas comes back, hands us some more money, gives us attitude, gets told in no uncertain terms that the intimidation thing was completely unacceptable. He tries opening his mouth again and singer goes OFF, in the most straight forward, "you are way over your head here, your name isn't on this contract, get out of my face you ridiculous fool, and before you try saying 'this is a small town word is going to get around about you' again, realize that I know exactly who you are, I know your friends, I know who your parents are, I know you don't own so much as a pillow case of this hotel, now STFU and get out and don't try talking again because I can and will continue this tirade until I see your back on the other side of that door" way you've ever heard. I'm not nearly doing it justice. It was extended and vicious and absolutely beautiful.

A woman comes in with some more money. Asks if we'll play now. We have to count it first. If it's all here, we'll go put on the best show you've ever seen.

While the money is being counted, we're getting people from the party and the hotel trying to get us to go and play. Not until the money is counted. Lots of small bills unfortunately. Apparently there was a collection taken up.

It's all there, we go and play an absolutely killer set. Very few people dance. Most people left right after dinner actually. Apparently GoodFellas took it upon himself to go to every table in the party to complain and say derogatory things about us. It ruined the vibe so a lot of people just left. The ones that stayed had a great time.

I ran into a party-goer and a hotel employee afterwards and found out that the client was actually the couple that owned the hotel. I gave them the rundown on GF. They knew who he was. I informed them that he really embarrassed himself and the owners. They made a cursory attempt at defending him. The were just being polite really.

There's the possibility that someone might try to slam us on social media, but the clients would really be smart to avoid this. A couple of guys had the forethought to record everything on their phones and what would be shown is that they tried to break the contract by sending a representative to try to physically intimidate our singer. This is a one party consent state, so we're fine.

There are a few morals to this story:
- A good signed contract can make all the difference between getting paid and getting stiffed.
- Don't be afraid to demand that the contract be adhered to.
- Do not mess with this singer.
- If you're going to try to act like a goon out of a movie, be prepared follow through all the way with it, else you just end up embarrassing yourself and everyone around you.
 
What a mess!

Surprising that if the clients were the hotel owners, they couldn't scrape together the band's fee from petty cash or the bar's till in minutes. Hotel owners usually know that discretion is the better part of valour.

But...yeah....Rochester...that kind of explains it. :)
 
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You broke the contract by picking up the instruments and playing prior to full payment being received. Not saying you were in the wrong as the client was, but breaking the contract can have an impact in small-claims court.

I'd change the contract so that final payment is due prior to load-in and setup. That way you can just drive off if the client refuses. When you've completed load-in, setup, and sound check, the client could and likely feel they have an advantage to renegotiate.

And that is exactly what happened. You need to remember that negotiating takes on all different forms. Don't expect renegotiating to start off with the client to come straight forward and open with "I like to renegotiate the terms of the contract". Usually, most are passive negotiators that simply act resistive to get you to acquisce.
 
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Had an interesting one tonight.

This is with my new band I've been with for a couple months. Seven piece party/dance band that's been around over twenty years still with three original members. Fantastic musicians all, and wonderful people.

So the gig is a private party at a swank mid-sized hotel in a well to do, artsy neighborhood. This being a professionally run band, there is a signed contract in place. Terms are very clear and reasonable. A deposit is required. It was received well in advance. So far so good. The balance must be paid in full prior to the band starting our performance. Cash or bank check. If it's bank check we need to receive it no less than twenty four hours prior to the event. All clearly spelled out in the signed contract. The singer (female) handles all business matters. She's really, really good at it.

The person who hired us and signed the contract is contacted earlier in the week to double check details and is reminded of the terms so there's no mix ups. Just being thorough. "No problem". Same thing the day of the party. "No problem".

Today we get there, set up. Beautiful venue, clearly a high budget event.
We're to play a few songs when the guest of honor arrives, break for dinner then finish with a couple hours of dance music. Great.

C=Client (wealthy late middle aged woman).
S=Singer

S: So we should take care of the balance now.
C: I forgot it at home. I'll pay you Monday.
(uh-oh. Sorry we're musicians. We know better. Don't care if you're wealthy. That don't mean jack.)
S: The contract states that we need the balance paid in full.
C: Really? You're serious?
S: Yes, I'm afraid so.
C: I'll send my son for it.
S: Ok, as a goodwill gesture, we'll play when the guest of honor arrives, but we need payment immediately after that.

We play about 30 minutes, head to another room in the hotel to get fed while the party has speeches and dinner.

Singer enters says the client is putting her off about payment and she was taken aside by a very large guy in a loud sport coat who tried to intimidate her into playing and getting paid at a later date. She's pissed. She is also the exact wrong person to pull this with. He is messing with forces he cannot comprehend. We discuss packing up and leaving.

We've fulfilled the terms of the contract and now we have some idiot who's watched GoodFellas too many times trying to act the hero by bullying a woman who is capable of grinding him down into a nub. Not acceptable. At this point the vibe is clearly "if we play without getting paid first, we'll never see the money without going to small claims."

Another guy comes into the room who's nice enough and clearly confused about exactly what's happening. He's just been sent in after being told the band is saying they won't play unless they're paid. The situation is explained to him. We have a contract, we need the terms of the contract to be adhered to. This isn't personal, it's just business. The contract is worded this way for a reason. He asks if we'll take a credit card. Um...no. He says he can get cash for maybe a third of what's owed. Sorry, but no. Payment in full.

GoodFellas then enters the room. Tries the intimidation thing, dropping F bombs. That's ignored completely. "What, you think we're not good for it?" This is shut down immediately. This is a business transaction. We have a signed contract. We have adhered to it. We expect the terms to be met. He tried telling us he owns the hotel. It's getting more ridiculous by the second. He eventually leaves.

Previous nice guy comes in with some cash. It's counted. Not enough, short by hundreds of dollars. "Yes we're really going to hold out for the full amount."

Goodfellas comes back, hands us some more money, gives us attitude, gets told in no uncertain terms that the intimidation thing was completely unacceptable. He tries opening his mouth again and singer goes OFF, in the most straight forward, "you are way over your head here, your name isn't on this contract, get out of my face you ridiculous fool, and before you try saying 'this is a small town word is going to get around about you' again, realize that I know exactly who you are, I know your friends, I know who your parents are, I know you don't own so much as a pillow case of this hotel, now STFU and get out and don't try talking again because I can and will continue this tirade until I see your back on the other side of that door" way you've ever heard. I'm not nearly doing it justice. It was extended and vicious and absolutely beautiful.

A woman comes in with some more money. Asks if we'll play now. We have to count it first. If it's all here, we'll go put on the best show you've ever seen.

While the money is being counted, we're getting people from the party and the hotel trying to get us to go and play. Not until the money is counted. Lots of small bills unfortunately. Apparently there was a collection taken up.

It's all there, we go and play an absolutely killer set. Very few people dance. Most people left right after dinner actually. Apparently GoodFellas took it upon himself to go to every table in the party to complain and say derogatory things about us. It ruined the vibe so a lot of people just left. The ones that stayed had a great time.

I ran into a party-goer and a hotel employee afterwards and found out that the client was actually the couple that owned the hotel. I gave them the rundown on GF. They knew who he was. I informed them that he really embarrassed himself and the owners. They made a cursory attempt at defending him. The were just being polite really.

There's the possibility that someone might try to slam us on social media, but the clients would really be smart to avoid this. A couple of guys had the forethought to record everything on their phones and what would be shown is that they tried to break the contract by sending a representative to try to physically intimidate our singer. This is a one party consent state, so we're fine.

There are a few morals to this story:
- A good signed contract can make all the difference between getting paid and getting stiffed.
- Don't be afraid to demand that the contract be adhered to.
- Do not mess with this singer.
- If you're going to try to act like a goon out of a movie, be prepared follow through all the way with it, else you just end up embarrassing yourself and everyone around you.

Would you care to PM me the name of the venue involved? I'm also in Rochester.
 
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Tough night.

Just to throw in my opinion....You guys aren't in the wrong, but I might have handled things a little different.

How likely would it have been that this wealthy older lady wouldn't have paid you on Monday? Or even by the end of the night if you insisted?

I've been in situations similar to this and usually I just asses the risk. Would I trust a seedy promoter in a venue that was empty? No way.
This lady is a client throwing a high end event. There's the potential for more work, and more connections. Sometimes it pays to give people the benefit of the doubt, even if there's a small risk of getting burned

I will say again, I don't think you guys where in the wrong, you were well within your rights. It's especially hard for the BL, who should make sure everyone's paid for their time; this may be part of the reason she is very strict with the contracts. Depending on the relationship within the band, getting paid a few days later might not be a huge deal.
Also the guy trying to intimidate you guys is ridiculous. Sucks the vibe was ruined for everyone.
 
This has got to be one of the best stories I've ever heard on Talkbass!!! Congrats to having a BL that has the wisdom to carefully bend with the situation (playing the intro-to-the-speaker segment) and the resilience to remain firm (not playing until the balance is paid in full).
 
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What a mess!

Surprising that if the clients were the hotel owners, they couldn't scrape together the band's fee from petty cash or the bar's till in minutes. Hotel owners usually know that discretion is the better part of valour.

But...yeah....Rochester...that kind of explains it. :)

That was our thought process. Go hit the hotel safe. As to Rochester, my experience has been excellent with most venues. There's always the odd jerk club owner, but for the most part this is a pretty good town to be a performing musician.

Tough night.

Just to throw in my opinion....You guys aren't in the wrong, but I might have handled things a little different.

How likely would it have been that this wealthy older lady wouldn't have paid you on Monday? Or even by the end of the night if you insisted?

I've been in situations similar to this and usually I just asses the risk. Would I trust a seedy promoter in a venue that was empty? No way.
This lady is a client throwing a high end event. There's the potential for more work, and more connections. Sometimes it pays to give people the benefit of the doubt, even if there's a small risk of getting burned

Our risk assessment was not favorable. Given that the client assured us she was sending her son to get the cash and the next thing we knew there was a goon trying to physically intimidate our singer, we reasonably looked at the chances of being paid after the fact as less than likely.

As to risking work and connections, this band has plenty of both. They have an excellent, long time reputation as a top notch professional act.
 
Hi,

Because of contracts, I have gotten paid even when I couldn't play due to reasons beyond our control. I have gotten paid when the client canceled the gig with too short of a notice. The band has had to go to court a couple of times but always won. Contracts are great when a handshake just isn't good enough.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
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Aside from playing in a party band, I also DJ from time to time with my friend's company when he needs an extra hand. The band's payment is handled by an agency so we don't deal with that, but as far as the DJing events go, we require events to be paid in full 48 hours prior to the event or we don't even show up.
 
How likely would it have been that this wealthy older lady wouldn't have paid you on Monday? Or even by the end of the night if you insisted?

I get it, but in all honesty, it doesn't matter. She didn't have the money by the agreed upon time. I don't know how long you've been in the business or what your experience is, but in my experience, contracts are needed because (unfortunately) someone's word isn't good enough.
 
I get it, but in all honesty, it doesn't matter. She didn't have the money by the agreed upon time. I don't know how long you've been in the business or what your experience is, but in my experience, contracts are needed because (unfortunately) someone's word isn't good enough.
Definitely think contracts are needed.
What I'm getting at, is depending on the context of a situation, you can asses your risks. I've seen people completely throw away potential connections with well funded people over petty stuff.

Just saying it doesn't hurt to look at the big picture. Event production can get messy; people have a lot going on and can overlook things. People who are good at throwing events know on of the first things you should take care of is making sure your people are paid. The ones who don't know that are usually hoping their event goes well enough so that they can pay their people!
Of course you should be careful with people and ALWAYS have a contract in place. However in some RARE instances you can take a leap of faith, give the right person a little leeway. You still have the contract in place to back you up just in case.

Again, not saying OPs band did the wrong thing. For all I know the BL had to pay everyone that very night, regardless if she got paid or not. In this case it also seems like the Goodfellas guy kinda escalated and ruined everything for no reason
 

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