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Conversations with soundmen

#41
JimmyM said:
What's up with pin2 hot? Can't say it's yet been an issue at any gig I've done, but it's always good to prepare in case it is, so I should probably ask why that's better so I can invent yet another problem for myself that only throwing money at it can solve ;)
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Damn near every company out there is pin2 hot.


The countryman requires you to switch polarity on that channel, because it's wired pin2 "cold" -180 degrees out of phase.

It's as easy as switching the polarity on the mixer, but it's something easily forgotten.
 
#42
JimmyM said:
What's up with pin2 hot? Can't say it's yet been an issue at any gig I've done, but it's always good to prepare in case it is, so I should probably ask why that's better so I can invent yet another problem for myself that only throwing money at it can solve ;)
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Once upon a time standards didn't so much exist for how to wire an XLR connector. Some stuff was pin 2 hot, some stuff was pin 3 hot. Most stuff was pin 2 hot. Now everything is pin 2 hot. Only problem is that the Countryman DI has been around for-freakin-ever, and they were always pin 3 hot. Countryman has decided to continue making them that way, the logic being that no matter how old or new the box you grab is it will work the same way.

Any larger console (and many smaller mixers) will have a polarity reverse button. If you don't want to count on that you can buy an adapter that swaps pin 2 for pin 3.
 
#43
projectMalamute said:
Once upon a time standards didn't so much exist for how to wire an XLR connector. Some stuff was pin 2 hot, some stuff was pin 3 hot. Most stuff was pin 2 hot. Now everything is pin 2 hot. Only problem is that the Countryman DI has been around for-freakin-ever, and they were always pin 3 hot. Countryman has decided to continue making them that way, the logic being that no matter how old or new the box you grab is it will work the same way.

Any larger console (and many smaller mixers) will have a polarity reverse button. If you don't want to count on that you can buy an adapter that swaps pin 2 for pin 3.
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Or switch the wiring inside the box.


put a nice sticker on the side saying pin2 hot also....
 
#44
Wow, can't believe that as long as I've been using pro audio gear, I didn't know there used to not be a standard for that. But it seems like everyone I work with who uses one can deal with it, so I think I'll leave the wiring as it is.
 
#45
JimmyM said:
Wow, can't believe that as long as I've been using pro audio gear, I didn't know there used to not be a standard for that. But it seems like everyone I work with who uses one can deal with it, so I think I'll leave the wiring as it is.
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It's not a big deal. Most pro consoles have a polarity flip button on each channel so on the off chance there's a phase issue, it can be easily rectified. Everything coming off stage is phase shifted off absolute perfect polarity anyway so it's not like the bass is the only thing not perfectly in phase. In some cases flipping the polarity actually improves things (which is why consoles have that button in the first place).

That being said, Countryman should really update so that they're meeting the international standard, but it's hardly a reason not to buy one.
 
#46
rdmjazz said:
I hated when as a FOH/TM I would advance a show with a current input list, and when I would get to the show all I hear is crying because my list doesn't fit with their "festival" input list. I always used 2 kick channels,2 -snare, and 2 for bass. They always tryed to get me to drop channels simply because they were lazy burned out crybabies. Very frustrating indeed!
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The local crew or the band? :p

As a systems engineer I always do my best to make sure that anyone who advances me a current input list gets the patch the way they want it. However, show up 1/2hour before your set with a brand new input list, way different than the advanced one and you might not get it exactly the way you want it. I had a band engineer freak out at me after walking up with a new input list shortly before their set at a festival when I couldn't manage to put his 2nd kickdrum channel right after the first. He was told to take it or leave it and the stage manager backed me up on it.

As a BE, I try to be reasonable and tolerant of festival situations, though I don't agree to drop channels if I've advanced a plot and input list.

These days it's getting a lot easier to accomodate everyone with the advent of digital consoles that you can patch any input to anywhere on the control surface.
 
#47
Mark Reccord said:
The local crew or the band? :p

As a systems engineer I always do my best to make sure that anyone who advances me a current input list gets the patch the way they want it. However, show up 1/2hour before your set with a brand new input list, way different than the advanced one and you might not get it exactly the way you want it. I had a band engineer freak out at me after walking up with a new input list shortly before their set at a festival when I couldn't manage to put his 2nd kickdrum channel right after the first. He was told to take it or leave it and the stage manager backed me up on it.

As a BE, I try to be reasonable and tolerant of festival situations, though I don't agree to drop channels if I've advanced a plot and input list.

These days it's getting a lot easier to accomodate everyone with the advent of digital consoles that you can patch any input to anywhere on the control surface.
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I agree.
I'm talking when I had advanced the show in plenty of time as the BE. Usually in the headlining slot.

I hosted many festivals as the local FOH guy, and would always try to give the BE what they wanted. Of course I got plenty of old input lists/stage plots advanced to me, then they would show up with something different than what they had advanced. That was a pet peeve of mine, so when I went out as BE I always had current info.

Festivals are festivals, I've mixed many shows with my "extra" channels at the end of the console. I usually had too many other things to worry about as TM to fight those battles when the crew wasn't on the ball.

+1 on the digi consoles. I stopped going out right before digi consoles started being the norm. I did the Yamaha PM1D training and never got to use it.:crying:
 
#48
Monomer said:
Hey, the Imp's the sm58 of the DI world. It has it's place.
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In both cases, those places are far, far away from me. I despise SM58s even more than I despise the IMP-2.

I should point out, I also bring my own vocal mics and DI. I wouldn't complain about gear provided for me when I didn't bring any of my own; I dig in my heels when somebody comes at me with a box that says Behringer or IMP-2 on it and tries to get me to bypass my Summit Audio.
 
#49
WalterBush said:
In both cases, those places are far, far away from me. I despise SM58s even more than I despise the IMP-2.

I should point out, I also bring my own vocal mics and DI. I wouldn't complain about gear provided for me when I didn't bring any of my own; I dig in my heels when somebody comes at me with a box that says Behringer or IMP-2 on it and tries to get me to bypass my Summit Audio.
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As you should. You should also be real sarcastic about it, too:

"So let me get this straight...you want me not to use this $500 tube DI in favor of the cheapest DI in the world? Is that what they taught you at Full Sail?"

OTOH, does it ever actually happen? I'd like to meet the braindead soundman who wanted to make that call.
 
#53
you really need to lay off full sail... i did very well there, and i dont say/do the dumb **** you claim we all do

and if your DI is reversed polarity, then you should make a polarity flip cable to correct it. simplify the entire process so the bonehead soundguy never knows the difference.
 
#55
sonic assassin said:
you really need to lay off full sail... i did very well there, and i dont say/do the dumb **** you claim we all do

and if your DI is reversed polarity, then you should make a polarity flip cable to correct it. simplify the entire process so the bonehead soundguy never knows the difference.
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Relax, no one said anything about ALL Full Sail techs. Every place puts out their share of duds. Glad to hear you did well there.
 
#58
sonic assassin said:
jimmy just rips on full sail a LOT because some bonehead left a bad impression on him. sucks to have the biggest accomplishment of my life belittled on a normal basis.
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Well if you're a sound tech you better get used to being belittled. ;)

No matter how good you are it seems musicians have a nasty habit of taking an untrained audience members word on sound quality over a professional set of ears. But that's a whole different discussion...
 
#59
sonic assassin said:
you really need to lay off full sail... i did very well there, and i dont say/do the dumb **** you claim we all do

and if your DI is reversed polarity, then you should make a polarity flip cable to correct it. simplify the entire process so the bonehead soundguy never knows the difference.
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As I recall, SA, you received some misinformation at Full Sail that was corrected by people who have multiple degrees and/or decades of experience with pro audio at the highest pro levels, and your response was "I have a degree that says some people should just shut up and take notes."

I also recall you saying that Full Sail gave the bass grossly short shrift in your recording classes and it offended you.

So in a way, you're proving the stereotypes and preconceptions that people have about Full Sail. You and almost every single recent graduate of Full Sail that I've worked with, and I work with a lot. They all come out of Full Sail shot out of a cannon and assed up, thinking they know everything and everyone else is stupid because they didn't attend it. A couple years in the field usually sets them straight, as it does every person in every profession that is taught in college.
 

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