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Convince me: James Brown!
- Thread starter Kwesi
- Start date
I love JB's work in the sense that it makes me dance, I love how the band just keeps working it over and over and there are so many infectious grooves that simply make me dance and his contribution to the genre is immense. But I sort of understand the OP. JB has always been a groovebox kinda thing for me. Plenty of everything good, but as songs they don't impress me so much and I've never cared for the vocals either. Sure, it's fun, but when almost every song has a breakdown when JB sounds like he is giving birth, it gets old pretty quick.
I love JB, but it's a dancehall thing for me. I've spent my fair time playing those songs and really appreciate JB's work, but I'd never put one of his records on just to listen. But when I'm cleaning and need some tunes for me to dance with the mop, it's JB time. WalterBush put it pretty well with "you can't sit on your backside and listen to JB." But for me, the difference between great and unbelievably awesome is that the latter works in every situation.
I love JB, but it's a dancehall thing for me. I've spent my fair time playing those songs and really appreciate JB's work, but I'd never put one of his records on just to listen. But when I'm cleaning and need some tunes for me to dance with the mop, it's JB time. WalterBush put it pretty well with "you can't sit on your backside and listen to JB." But for me, the difference between great and unbelievably awesome is that the latter works in every situation.
James Brown's earliest records were Gospel& Blues influenced.
He pretty much invented Funk. He did so many 1st's in music. The Apollo live album in 1962 was a major groundbreaker. His early 60's version of Nighttrain. The 1960's he brought out Out of Sight,Papa's got a Brand New Bag,Cold Sweat & much more.He even did some of the earliest Rap records(America is my Home being one). If you were around then this stuff was revolutionary
I saw him in 1966 when I was 13 years old at the old Uptown theatre in Philadelphia. A black buddy from my junior high school made me go. Although I was aware of him he hadn't quite crossed over yet. To say I was blown away is an understatement. I was a lot more into British & US. Rock in those days.
I'm assuming that you are a lot younger then me. You've probably grown up with James Brown influenced music all around you. A lot of people don't realize what a major revolutionary music figure he was as his stature dimmed somewhat by the 80's.
He was the first in funk. I hear more of James Brown in music today then I do even of a band as influential as the Beatles.
He pretty much invented Funk. He did so many 1st's in music. The Apollo live album in 1962 was a major groundbreaker. His early 60's version of Nighttrain. The 1960's he brought out Out of Sight,Papa's got a Brand New Bag,Cold Sweat & much more.He even did some of the earliest Rap records(America is my Home being one). If you were around then this stuff was revolutionary
I saw him in 1966 when I was 13 years old at the old Uptown theatre in Philadelphia. A black buddy from my junior high school made me go. Although I was aware of him he hadn't quite crossed over yet. To say I was blown away is an understatement. I was a lot more into British & US. Rock in those days.
I'm assuming that you are a lot younger then me. You've probably grown up with James Brown influenced music all around you. A lot of people don't realize what a major revolutionary music figure he was as his stature dimmed somewhat by the 80's.
He was the first in funk. I hear more of James Brown in music today then I do even of a band as influential as the Beatles.
- Apr 21, 2000
- 10,465
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- Disclosures
- Gallien Krueger for the last 12 years!
You don't need convincing. If you don't get it when you listen to him, then you don't get it. Move on. James Brown introduced "the one", and you like all of the students, but not the teacher.
yeah. i think i can understand. i think like some others, even the ones you mentioned he has some really good stuff, and then some, "meh" stuff. i find that sometimes i feel like he drags the tune along to the point of monotony.
"take me to the bridge"
If it takes convincing, then you don't get it. You need to put on his records and listen over and over again. Figure out every bass line and do everything in your power to make it groove like the recordings.
JB said it himself, he's got soul and he's superbad!
JB said it himself, he's got soul and he's superbad!
I like selected JB: I Feel Good, Cold Sweat, I Got the Feelin'. After a while, it became repetitive.
I LOVE JB!
I really love his versatility - most people think 'funk'. However, you've got everything from ballads upwards.
How can anyone aruge with slow stuff like 'King Heroin', or 'Your Love Was Good To Me'? He was a soul singer of the highest order.
Check out 'The Payback', recorded in the year his son was killed. The track, 'Doing The Best I Can'....if you don't shed a tear, you are the Terminator.
His bands were superb - he was a true bandleader.
It's such a shame his stuff gets re-packaged so many times just concentrating on the 'classic funk' hits. JB was a versatile artist (jazzy albums, instrumental albums), and not a one-trick pony.
He was a one-off, and the biggest pity is that I believe that the time of music producing such individuals has passed. There's no way that JB could produce the volume and varying nature of work that he did in his heyday in today's climate.
There's a great box-set, 'Star Time', can be picked up for under £20 (in dollars..er...)that covers many aspects of JB. Check it out, and get hooked!
I really love his versatility - most people think 'funk'. However, you've got everything from ballads upwards.
How can anyone aruge with slow stuff like 'King Heroin', or 'Your Love Was Good To Me'? He was a soul singer of the highest order.
Check out 'The Payback', recorded in the year his son was killed. The track, 'Doing The Best I Can'....if you don't shed a tear, you are the Terminator.
His bands were superb - he was a true bandleader.
It's such a shame his stuff gets re-packaged so many times just concentrating on the 'classic funk' hits. JB was a versatile artist (jazzy albums, instrumental albums), and not a one-trick pony.
He was a one-off, and the biggest pity is that I believe that the time of music producing such individuals has passed. There's no way that JB could produce the volume and varying nature of work that he did in his heyday in today's climate.
There's a great box-set, 'Star Time', can be picked up for under £20 (in dollars..er...)that covers many aspects of JB. Check it out, and get hooked!
It is truly a matter of personal taste. With that being said, I can't stand Jamiroquai-I don't get his appeal at all.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, guys. I've listened to a bunch of the songs suggested but I still wasn't feeling the "it" vibe I get from other stuff. These kinds of topics are always interesting though because you see how wildly varied peoples' tastes can be even within a genre 
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I think I can understand what you're talking about with regards to the style, but it was the era and JB broke major ground which opened up new musical path(s) for folks to go in.Thanks for the comments and suggestions, guys. I've listened to a bunch of the songs suggested but I still wasn't feeling the "it" vibe I get from other stuff. These kinds of topics are always interesting though because you see how wildly varied peoples' tastes can be even within a genre
As much as I am humbled by the techniques of Funk, Soul, & R & B that came as a result of Brown's breakthrough music, there's something about the total discliplined and stripped down nature of certain genres like James Brown's music, that I find most challenging and enjoyable to play along to.
It's all good really. If it doesn't click with you now, it may later.
It's easy to not be a 'fan' but if you're saying 'not a fan' as in not just not happening to be a fan, but particularly not liking the music, I suggest that you start saying what you mean before offering to be sold on concepts or ideas.
Discussion is a great way to do that, but talking things out is a lot different than typing on a keyboard.
Play some JB.
if you think you're a lover of FUNK and then cite tower of power and Jamiroquai, while saying that JB doesn't do it for ya then I don't think you really know what FUNK is. Perhaps you do, but the FUNK is only a part of ToP and Jamiroquai's package, while JB is mainly FUNK in a soul package.
Sounds like you like soul/R&B influenced dance music. very different.
Funky does not Funk make.
Discussion is a great way to do that, but talking things out is a lot different than typing on a keyboard.
Play some JB.
if you think you're a lover of FUNK and then cite tower of power and Jamiroquai, while saying that JB doesn't do it for ya then I don't think you really know what FUNK is. Perhaps you do, but the FUNK is only a part of ToP and Jamiroquai's package, while JB is mainly FUNK in a soul package.
Sounds like you like soul/R&B influenced dance music. very different.
Funky does not Funk make.
Those of you who never saw the James Brown Review in person will never fully understand the appeal of his music. He was truly unlike anyone before or after, and he fully disserved the title of the hardest working man in show business. From the first note to the last his show was a continuous wall or pure energy. I was lucky enough to have seen him around a dozen times at the peak of his career, and no other show ever came close to matching his in energy or talent. Don't get me wrong, there were many great R&B artists touring and recording at the time, but I never saw any perform with the energy and excitement of James Brown. As some have pointed out, his music can go on almost to the point of repetitiveness when heard on a CD. You just had to experience it live; there is no other way to understand.
Since this is a bass forum, I find is surprising that everyone mentions Bootsy Collins when referring to the James Brown band, but no one ever mentions Bernard Odum. Odum played on most of the James Brown hit recordings through the end of the '60's. Bootsy, although a great bass player, only played with Brown toward the end of JB's career.
Since this is a bass forum, I find is surprising that everyone mentions Bootsy Collins when referring to the James Brown band, but no one ever mentions Bernard Odum. Odum played on most of the James Brown hit recordings through the end of the '60's. Bootsy, although a great bass player, only played with Brown toward the end of JB's career.
Well, to be fair, James Brown's career ended when he died. Regarding Bootsy - it's true that he only played with Brown for around a year. That year, however, produced some of Brown's best (and best-loved) funk. While Odum did his thing well, it doesn't surprise me at all that bassists are generally more taken with Bootsy's approach (which was more in-your-face and, dare I say, more exciting to listen to).
Good Gawd son...Wash your mouth out NOW...you completely FAILED FUNK Studies 101
Now get your butt in that shed and learn where "grunt" "hump in your back" and "on the one" came from and don't come out until you understand why WE sweat when we play REAL FUNK!
Prof Otis T...PHD from the "Old School" Keep the FUnk Flame Burnin!
Now get your butt in that shed and learn where "grunt" "hump in your back" and "on the one" came from and don't come out until you understand why WE sweat when we play REAL FUNK!
Prof Otis T...PHD from the "Old School" Keep the FUnk Flame Burnin!
I didnt mean to take anything away from Bootsy. I just think Odum deserves his due credit. The period of Browns best work is subjective, and we each have a right to our own opinion. IMHO his best work came before his original band left him. Still, I respect your opinion. We just have different taste in music. I happened to have been around at the time, and my memory is that the change in band personnel marked the beginning of his decline in popularity. But then, it could just be old timers disease kicking in.
You can apply this rule to most funk music. Take P-funk. I liked them before, but when I saw them live (not even with any of the members from the 70s, except George Clinton), it was incredible. I could have danced for days if they played for days.
Such is the power of funk.
Weighing in on opinion based posts like this can be problematic. Everyone throws in their $.02 and sometimes an "us vs. them" vibe develops. While I feel differently than you do Kwesi, (I absolutely love JB's grooves - the feeling I get from listening to him is incomparable) I fully respect your musical tastes. Having said that, I love JB so deeply I had to share some of what it is that I dig about him.
First, I would echo those who suggested you keep returning to JB's music to see if your experience changes in the future. It sounds as though you understand the important place JB holds in the evolution of the groove. This is important regardless of one's opinion of the music. Like knowing any history, it adds value to your understanding of anything else that is related.
Some people love music that has simple repeating figures, others do not. Good grooves that can be repeated (with very little variation) without losing my interest are magical to me. They some how strip away all unnecessary elements (less is more) amplifying the impact of what is left. This is harder to accomplish than it sounds. Of course, different musical figures achieve this state of groove nirvana for different listeners (or in this case dancer/listeners).
Though many of JB's tracks do this for me, "I Can't Stand It" crystalizes one of the most satisfying (to me) elements of his style:
What can be so easily heard on this track is how each instrument fulfills a unique part of the musical phrase. The end result is an example of "the whole being way more than the sum of its parts". Also, on this track the groove is more linear than on other JB tunes. That is, there is less overlap between the different instruments, so it is very easy to hear the specific contribution of each "voice". After the bass comes in, the phrase is complete. It can clearly be heard developing from the bottom to the top. Beginning with the bubbling bass continuing with the spanky guitar and finally being brought to conclusion by the climactic organ stabs. Each instrument's voice is being used to propel the phrase forward, in a way uniquely suited to that instrument. It moves me deeply. This element is present in all of JB's music. In other tunes, the instruments overlap more. "The sum being more than its parts" is propelled by the "high point" of each instrument's phrase- the bass will drive through the hole left by the guitar, only to be complimented moments later by a horn figure. The end result is music that I find immensely gratifying.
I just can't get enough....
Happy funkin'
First, I would echo those who suggested you keep returning to JB's music to see if your experience changes in the future. It sounds as though you understand the important place JB holds in the evolution of the groove. This is important regardless of one's opinion of the music. Like knowing any history, it adds value to your understanding of anything else that is related.
Some people love music that has simple repeating figures, others do not. Good grooves that can be repeated (with very little variation) without losing my interest are magical to me. They some how strip away all unnecessary elements (less is more) amplifying the impact of what is left. This is harder to accomplish than it sounds. Of course, different musical figures achieve this state of groove nirvana for different listeners (or in this case dancer/listeners).
Though many of JB's tracks do this for me, "I Can't Stand It" crystalizes one of the most satisfying (to me) elements of his style:
What can be so easily heard on this track is how each instrument fulfills a unique part of the musical phrase. The end result is an example of "the whole being way more than the sum of its parts". Also, on this track the groove is more linear than on other JB tunes. That is, there is less overlap between the different instruments, so it is very easy to hear the specific contribution of each "voice". After the bass comes in, the phrase is complete. It can clearly be heard developing from the bottom to the top. Beginning with the bubbling bass continuing with the spanky guitar and finally being brought to conclusion by the climactic organ stabs. Each instrument's voice is being used to propel the phrase forward, in a way uniquely suited to that instrument. It moves me deeply. This element is present in all of JB's music. In other tunes, the instruments overlap more. "The sum being more than its parts" is propelled by the "high point" of each instrument's phrase- the bass will drive through the hole left by the guitar, only to be complimented moments later by a horn figure. The end result is music that I find immensely gratifying.
I just can't get enough....
Happy funkin'
ITS DANCIN MUSIC...People USED to like to dance as long as they could because it was a PARTY...JAmes Brown dance songs are NOT meant to be listened to sitting down or alone!
