Copy Basses

[iriegnome]

OK. I know this thread has been posted, but I am still very confused on this issue. Fender P-basses and Jazz basses are pretty much the "Industry Standard" basses. Not bad basses, playable, not overly priced and readily available. Here is my question/problem. Copies... From Lakeland to Sadowsky, everyone makes copies. The problem I have is what and why a copy can be 2 or 3 times the price of the original. Years ago, copies were cheaper, more available and sometimes actually more fun to own. I just do not understand this concept of a copy 1. Being more expensive than the original, 2. What the hell would someone pay more for a copy than the original and 3. Why would someone want a copy instead of the original????
I understand the personal preference and all of that, but I always think that copies are just that, a copy. Not the original. I realize that this is a pretty touchy subject, but I am genuine in my inquiry.

 

[mike_v_s]

As you noted, this has been covered countless times. Any Sadowsky thread will answer this question. I'll give a quick explanation: higher quality. Generally speaking, the pricier models from the manufacturers you listed use better components, are assembled with a much greater attention to detail and offer a level of customer service you won't get at other places. The end result only looks like the original. Many folks seem to think the instruments aren't even comparable. Enough to keep brands like Sadowsky, et al in business and making money. I suggest finding one at a local shop and playing it back-to-back with the "original".

Others can probably answer this question in more detail, I hope I've at least cleared a bit of air on the subject.

Mike

 

[Kenny Allyn]

In answer to your question, a lot of folks are gonna chime in about quality control active pre-amps etc: all valid points I might add.

Fenders ... I personally like a good Fender mostly vintage if you check my profile. Also the fact that it's nice to buy an old Fender for $500.00 keep it a few years and it be worth $2500.00

Now all that said why would I own a Lakland Bob Glaub ... well yes to the quality control, but it's a bass Fender never built, never could ... so in this case I have a traditional P-Bass style with a Jazz taper neck, black blocks with no binding and a Dark Star pickup all of that in a hand made bass

... Yeah to me it was worth the price of admission

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Reasons why you might want a copy over an original:

Better build quality
Better electronics quality
Better customer service
Different options

Fender being the original, does not make them the best, by any stretch of the imagination.

If anything, Fenders, especially MIA ones, are like Nike trainers, mediocore quality items, with a highly inflated price. People will buy the name, not the product, if you get what i mean.

 

[NickyBass]

I can only give you my reason---which I would never state as an absolute, but my opinion.

I would argue that Fenders are not 'the original' as you call them. Sure, the name is the same, and the design is the same, but the company itself really has nothing to do with the original. I'm not saying that they are bad basses, just that the company's only claim to the Jazz and Precision bass is that they paid to own the names.

I feel that Roger Sadowsky, for example is carrying on the 'Fender' name better than the 'original' company. Leo used to go to clubs and ask players what they wanted and needed and what could be improved. He was constantly in the scene and constantly working with musicians to improve his basses. His hands on approach made customer service and quality control issues diminish. He was forward thinking. All these qualities are what made Fenders the industry standard in the first place.

Of course, the short answer is play one and see for yourself. Maybe you will still prefer the Fender, but you never know.

 

[Nino Valenti]

Compare Apples to Apples. A Master Built Fender Custom Shop will price out pretty close to a Lakland, Lull, Sadowsky, etc.

Why is a Master Built Fender Custom Shop worth so much more then an off the shelf, massed produced Fender?

 

[ogyen]

+1 Nino

For me, I play Fenders, Sadowsky's, I've got another Lull coming, and I've had Lakland's and probably will again. To me it's about a familiar feel to a bass with the specific characteristcs of each bass, I play Sadowsky's for that sound which is a modern kinda sound, Fender's for that old school sound that feels like home, and Lull's for a 5-string that offers the best of both old school and modern sounds IMHO. For me the key is that familiar J or P feel because modern shapes don't feel right to me, but that platform allows for a wide variety of sounds and I've found my favorites. Construction quality is great, but without those tonal differences I wouldn't be bothered.

 

[ehque]

No one seeks to copy fender for copying sake, at least not the higher end builders. It's simply what works, and they don't need to rely on the fender brand to sell their basses.

I wouldn't call sads and laks copies. Maybe "inspired by Fender" or something like that.

 

[0175westwood29]

No one seeks to copy fender for copying sake, at least not the higher end builders. It's simply what works, and they don't need to rely on the fender brand to sell their basses.

I wouldn't call sads and laks copies. Maybe "inspired by Fender" or something like that.

+1

inspired is the rite word i think, they all done there twist on it.

copies are made to be cheaper. i have a EBMM copy that cost a 10th of a real MM but obviously sounds a 10th of a reall MM to!

i dnt think you could say that about a laks or shads?

 

[savit260]

I'd classify Fender copies in 3 catagory's.

1. Less expensive copies that offer the player on a budget a reasonable approximation of the original at a much lower price.

2. Replicas as in the offerings from Nash, Edwards and the like that are meant to visualy replicate a Vintage Fender.

3. Super Bass Copies. These would be the Sadowsky, Lakeland, Lull etc. that take the basic Fender form and add their own upgraded hardware, pre-amps etc. to create a modern version of the old classic. These guys add custom built quality and attention to deatail, with options not available on an assembly line Fender. These are for the customer who desires a "modern" interpretation of the Old Warhorses. They also have large price tags due to the amount of labor and high quality parts used.

Personaly, I'll stick with my passive Fender, because I haven't found anyone who can top it yet in the tone department, but I'm not looking for modern tone either.

There is a Fender style bass out there for every budget, and most every style of music.

 

[ProfGumby]

Compare Apples to Apples. A Master Built Fender Custom Shop will price out pretty close to a Lakland, Lull, Sadowsky, etc.

Why is a Master Built Fender Custom Shop worth so much more then an off the shelf, massed produced Fender?

Ahhh, but you have to add you into that mix my friend! How does a Valenti compare??

(Just a shameless plug for your awesome works.... )

And to the OP, I can only second most of what's here.

 

[Stuggi]

Compare Apples to Apples. A Master Built Fender Custom Shop will price out pretty close to a Lakland, Lull, Sadowsky, etc.

Why is a Master Built Fender Custom Shop worth so much more then an off the shelf, massed produced Fender?

+1, Nino phrased what I intended to say perfectly

 

[iriegnome]

I only pointed out Sadowsky and Lakland as examples. Not to pick on them or anything like that.
So, as I try to understand this, quality aside, you like the shape of the bass. You buy a Jazz because of the body style and the neck. Change the quality, change the name. Going from a MIA Jazz to a Sadowsky or even a Nino (For example). Or from a MIA Precision to a Lakland. Hugh step up in price, quality, but still the same look. Yes??? No?? Maybe partly??

 

[Kenny Allyn]

OK ...

In my case I liked the traditional P-bass shape but the custom style neck is not what comes on a USA P-bass, and then there is the pickup, not a Fender item (even custom shop)

Now to Ninos point ... even IF all of the above was available from Fender it would have to cost at least what the Lakland did, if not more.

So I see no point in it (my bass) being a Fender. In a Fender I much prefer one to be a vintage bass "the real deal" as they say, rather than a custom shop relic or such.

... So there ya go ... one buyers reason for buying a Lakland, in the P-bass style.

 

[ogyen]

I only pointed out Sadowsky and Lakland as examples. Not to pick on them or anything like that.
So, as I try to understand this, quality aside, you like the shape of the bass. You buy a Jazz because of the body style and the neck. Change the quality, change the name. Going from a MIA Jazz to a Sadowsky or even a Nino (For example). Or from a MIA Precision to a Lakland. Hugh step up in price, quality, but still the same look. Yes??? No?? Maybe partly??

For me it's not a matter of an exact copy of a body, J or P, it's about he feel of the body, for example the lakland 4-94/55-94 has that feel of a contoured slab. I just don't like the feel of most curvy modern shapes, though they often look very cool. These days I play J's and P's, but I also love stingrays and laklands, and a soapbar sadowsky is something I'd love to checkout. In fact, I wish there were more soapbar equipped basses with a vintagey body style cause like I said, I love lots of sounds but few body styles.