Cost vs Common Sense?

[deepestend]

The value for me, in an expensive instrument, is the durability of the workmanship and the ability to be setup to play easy. Most definitely is not in the sound. Lots of cheap basses sound great, especially with pickup upgrades. What some of them won't do is setup with really low, effortless action without fretwork.

This is a good point. I think that expense can be put into two groups: a) fancy pants basses with exotic woods, finish, etc. and b) basses with an exceptional nut, fretwork, neck pocket fit, attention to weight, setup. Obviously, there is some crossover in these groups. But I'd see how far your dollar can go in b) and then weigh whether or not anything from a) (a fancy top, etc) is worth it to you.

 

[bikeplate]

Snore

 

[somebrains]

This is a good point. I think that expense can be put into two groups: a) fancy pants basses with exotic woods, finish, etc. and b) basses with an exceptional nut, fretwork, neck pocket fit, attention to weight, setup. Obviously, there is some crossover in these groups. But I'd see how far your dollar can go in b) and then weigh whether or not anything from a) (a fancy top, etc) is worth it to you.

There's a lot more, it's gotten to the point we run canned machine learning to but thru the piles of data.
Learn here: awslabs/amazon-sagemaker-examples

You can take data you are interested in and rerun the workshop jobs.
It might cost $0.40 when you are done running all of the jobs twice.

 

[pigpen1]

This is a good point. I think that expense can be put into two groups: a) fancy pants basses with exotic woods, finish, etc. and b) basses with an exceptional nut, fretwork, neck pocket fit, attention to weight, setup. Obviously, there is some crossover in these groups. But I'd see how far your dollar can go in b) and then weigh whether or not anything from a) (a fancy top, etc) is worth it to you.

For me, personally, you could hand me the "best sounding bass in the world" but I couldn't get the action as low as I wanted, or just something else was akward about it to me, I'd tell you to keep it. For my money, and it doesn't matter how much that is, A bass has to play and feel right above all else, even sound. I think playing bass should be fun, and its not fun if you are fighting your instrument. I don't really care about fancy woods or anything like that anyway.

 

[Bassist Jay]

Why is it not built to last? Does it come with termites? Wood and metal tend to last.

Most entry level basses and I'm assuming Ammoon is one of those due to its price, is made in China or some other Country where labor is extremely cheap.

Most of those inexepensive if not all of them are made with very cheap hardware and pickups. How they do that is by mixing tin in with the metal or copper wiring but by doing that, it makes those hardware parts under tension not be as strong and they will wear out much sooner. Chinese pickups typically are junk from the get go so getting a quality of sound or tone from them, is darn near impossible. But then, again, they are more likely to have wiring break or go out. Solder points come undone etc.. Then you have the tuning keys. Every pair of tuning keys I have ever used from China have a ton of play in ten gearing and head making fine or accurate tuning almost impossible.

Now with the bodies and necks, fit and finish will be hit and miss. Some will be okay but because they are mass produced and in China those factories may not remove the proper moisture amount from the wood or do as well of a qc check, you will have a higher percentage of necks with issues. The fret jobs and nut being properly filed is also not as good of quality.

Now again, for the money, under $100.00 for an Ammoon jazz style bass and I think around $50.00 for an Ammoon strat style guitar, those are great prices for a new instrument. So when comparing it to an American made strat style guitar or jazz style bass, of course the American counterpart should last much longer and sound better. They are literally 10 to 20 times the cost minimum. But to answer your question why an entry level, Chinese made Ammoon wouldn't last as long generally speaking as an American made counterpart. The reasons that I listed are why.

 

[bobdabilder]

He has a neurological disorder. The gloves help that.

I think the glove thing is weird and its why I don't watch his content.

 

[jaco944]

We've had this type of thread before and it usually turns into a $&@tshow. Why do people get so defensive about having expensive instruments? I've said this before but no one cares that your bass is more expensive than you are good.

You're completely missing the point man...no need to overthink it, worry about pickup types, preamps, etc. Its a lighthearted video basically saying "tone is in the fingers".
Both basses sound fine. Im sure the expensive one is better. But the other bass is fine too. Its all about what you do with the instrument, the music you make, how much you enjoy it, etc.

This right here....can someone sticky this s$@# somewhere.

 

[somebrains]

He has a neurological disorder. The gloves help that.

It's not like Youtube works with E01S01 or there is a "start here so I can preface my content with personal issues that will explain something" message like a "adult only" content gate.

I find aspects of his content visually detracting from his message.
I don't like clickbait unless I'm the one deploying and tracking the branches.
Clickbait will absolutely make me ghost content.

I'm not consuming his bridge content to his paid content, period.

 

[Bassist Jay]

I will be having a Sadowsky NYC 5 jazz style bass being built for me soon. For fun, I might also buy an Ammoon jazz style bass and compare an $8,000.00 bass to an $80.00 bass.

Both will be jazz basses. Then after doing a comparison video, I will try and do a free give away of the Ammoon bass to someone who is wanting to learn how to play but can't afford to buy an instrument.

Since my Sadowsky will take almost a year to make, my guess is I'm at least a year out from doing said video but I think it would be something fun to do and then when I'm done, someone in need of a bass that can't afford one will be able to hopefully start on that journey of learning and loving to play an instrument.

 

[bobdabilder]

Good, good. Don't buy it.

It's not like Youtube works with E01S01 or there is a "start here so I can preface my content with personal issues that will explain something" message like a "adult only" content gate.

I find aspects of his content visually detracting from his message.
I don't like clickbait unless I'm the one deploying and tracking the branches.
Clickbait will absolutely make me ghost content.

I'm not consuming his bridge content to his paid content, period.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

to me its like comparing apples and oranges! & lets all keep in mind of the musician doing the demo on this video! "Scott Devine " is no joke!!
This guy can make any bass sound amazing! Depending on your level it Doesn't mean the cheaper bass will sound that good in any body's hands! in my opinion, Common sense should always be priority over price !

It isn't the sounds that is amazing. It is what he plays.

Any bass sounds good enough, or plays well enough after a setup.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I disagree that any old bass will sound great with a great player.
I once paid $65 for a pre-owned Yamaha RBX270 & the pickups in it were awful, really awful.
The plan was to drop some MFD pickups in there, but it turned out the truss rod was maxed out
Shame, as it was the lightest bass I ever owned, however briefly.

 

[BigBasserino]

Now with the bodies and necks, fit and finish will be hit and miss. Some will be okay but because they are mass produced and in China those factories may not remove the proper moisture amount from the wood or do as well of a qc check, you will have a higher percentage of necks with issues. The fret jobs and nut being properly filed is also not as good of quality.

To add, quality in budget instruments might've went up, but "you get what you pay for" definitely comes to mind. Yea, you'll get a "maple neck" but are you getting a strong quality maple or a flimsy piece of maple with a truss rod routed into it? Yes you'll get a basswood/ swamp ash body, but again, what's it's quality? I remember before Squier upped their game many people would go "it came put together but one bump or drop and I was already putting chips in it". Cheaper basses are made partially with cheaper selections of wood. Meanwhile I keep referencing my Carvin but you get not only well aged wood, you get graphite reinforcement to prevent warping etc. And that's around the 8x marker. Some players can polish a turd, not forgetting that out of the box intonation/ action were issues that you saw Scott fix. As far as the whole bag of "it sounded great because of the player"... Well, it couldn't be that the manufacturer realized a jazz bass doesn't equal to a jazz bass unless it meets some fundamentals of the sound?

The most evident sound difference should come down to the coils. Single coil vs dual coil! It's not difficult!

This video I think makes it dead simple in comparison with Scott's. You don't even need a 2nd bass to demonstrate it.



Jazz pups are flat, high mid heavy (trebly, even), "transparent" sound. The MM? Lots of low-mid honk, bassy, highs are present but rolled off in comparison to the jazz pickups.

There's plenty of "the tone is in the player" content online but I think the scope of that statement is useless without examining the lenses it's viewed under.

I will be having a Sadowsky NYC 5 jazz style bass being built for me soon. For fun, I might also buy an Ammoon jazz style bass and compare an $8,000.00 bass to an $80.00 bass.

Both will be jazz basses. Then after doing a comparison video, I will try and do a free give away of the Ammoon bass to someone who is wanting to learn how to play but can't afford to buy an instrument.

Since my Sadowsky will take almost a year to make, my guess is I'm at least a year out from doing said video but I think it would be something fun to do and then when I'm done, someone in need of a bass that can't afford one will be able to hopefully start on that journey of learning and loving to play an instrument.

Lol whatever man, just make sure you imagine having all the deluxe controls that the Sadowsky comes with while reviewing the Ammoon. Totally will pay off.

 

[madbass6]

It isn't the sounds that is amazing. It is what he plays.

Any bass sounds good enough, or plays well enough after a setup.

in my humble opinion that really depends on how the player makes the bass sound!
I would of said,
any Bass "could" sound good enough after a set up !

 

[BigBasserino]

in my humble opinion that really depends on how the player makes the bass sound!
I would of said,
any Bass "could" sound good enough after a set up !

There's limitations in everything. One thing I've learned from sequencer music is don't get mesmerized by someone playing a fancy lick or two because often it's a simple technique repeated as fast as someone's fingers will let them get away with. Even tech death there's guys who are just running through the scales as fast as they can.

I remember I once played a gig opening for the punk band MDC (2016, I think?). After listening to them rifle through about 100 songs in an hour, I came up to the bassist impressed after a blistering solo and went "wow, you guys are lightning in sound! How did you get to play so fast?". His answer was quite simple. "I dunno, we've always played this way, just sorta comes naturally".

 

[Clef_de_fa]

To add, quality in budget instruments might've went up, but "you get what you pay for" definitely comes to mind. Yea, you'll get a "maple neck" but are you getting a strong quality maple or a flimsy piece of maple with a truss rod routed into it? Yes you'll get a basswood/ swamp ash body, but again, what's it's quality? I remember before Squier upped their game many people would go "it came put together but one bump or drop and I was already putting chips in it". Cheaper basses are made partially with cheaper selections of wood. Meanwhile I keep referencing my Carvin but you get not only well aged wood, you get graphite reinforcement to prevent warping etc. And that's around the 8x marker. Some players can polish a turd, not forgetting that out of the box intonation/ action were issues that you saw Scott fix. As far as the whole bag of "it sounded great because of the player"... Well, it couldn't be that the manufacturer realized a jazz bass doesn't equal to a jazz bass unless it meets some fundamentals of the sound?

The most evident sound difference should come down to the coils. Single coil vs dual coil! It's not difficult!

This video I think makes it dead simple in comparison with Scott's. You don't even need a 2nd bass to demonstrate it.



Jazz pups are flat, high mid heavy (trebly, even), "transparent" sound. The MM? Lots of low-mid honk, bassy, highs are present but rolled off in comparison to the jazz pickups.

There's plenty of "the tone is in the player" content online but I think the scope of that statement is useless without examining the lenses it's viewed under.

Lol whatever man, just make sure you imagine having all the deluxe controls that the Sadowsky comes with while reviewing the Ammoon. Totally will pay off.

I agree with you that a bass will sound just fine. A lot of people talk about he can make anything sound good. Because he plays well. Both instrument sounded quite different to me, one was a cheap jazz sound while the other had a more complex sound. It wasn't because he is that good, it is just the way the instrument is made.

I think a lot of people like that middle man or poor man make something amazing out of dirt. The moment you have something fancy you are an elitist ******* because you aren't grinding on a piece of garbage. And so they'll do anything to prove you you only need a 100$ bass because it is fine enough.

I wonder if this attitude is something with TB or if it is a USA thing ( let's face it 80% of the people here are from the states )

 

[Clef_de_fa]

in my humble opinion that really depends on how the player makes the bass sound!
I would of said,
any Bass "could" sound good enough after a set up !

The cheap jazz copy sounded like a cheap jazz copy no matter how good he is. But he sure can play grooves very well on it. It sounded good because what he played was good. The quality of the sound of the instrument was ok at best.

 

[madbass6]

The cheap jazz copy sounded like a cheap jazz copy no matter how good he is. But he sure can play grooves very well on it. It sounded good because what he played was good. The quality of the sound of the instrument was ok at best.

and at the end of the night the way the musician makes the cheap bass (or not cheap bass) sound is what really matters !

 

[Clef_de_fa]

and at the end of the night the way the musician makes the cheap bass (or not cheap bass) sound is what really matters !

I would say that what matters is what was played

 

[madbass6]

I would say that what matters is what was played

Of course but Only if who played it makes it sound good on any Bass !
Here's a better idea, lets just agree to disagree