Could someone explain wattage in a way easier to understand?

[jre5]

Hi all. I have been looking at finally upgrading my bass rig from my combo Ibanez SWR65. I've had this one for a while in hopes of my next amp purchase to go towards a full rig (head/cab) and have specifically been looking at markbass heads. I'm so confused when it comes to wattage. For example. The Little Mark IV and the Little Mark IV300. same amp, just one's 500, and the other is 300 watt. I understand that wattage and volume are not the same, but in this case would that be the only difference? And what would be the reason to go for the 300 over the 500? Price maybe? And how come some amps will be crazy expensive but have 300 watts and others will be less expensive with what seems like significantly higher wattage? Is there a certain amount of wattage I should be going after? Also, how would the wattage of the amp reflect on a cab? I also understand that some big cabs can't handle high wattage, while some small cabs have crazy high wattage for this size. Would this mean the smaller cab can get louder than the same amp on a bigger cab with less wattage? This is all very confusing to me. If someone could explain it in easier to understand terms that would be greatly appreciated. Also, maybe give me some ideas on what to look for when it comes to wattage when looking at amps. Thanks in advanced!!

 

[jre5]

this little ninja is 850 for 1k watts.

and this vintage style tube amp is the same price for half the wattage. I understand that there is a demand for vintage style amps, and tubes make a difference yes, but the wattage throws me off! 1000 watts vs 500 watts. Which is better? Is the ninja even guaranteed to be louder? What makes the tube amp the same price with half the wattage? It's all super confusing to me. Thanks for the help in advanced.

 

[seamonkey]

What is it about your Ibanez SWR65 that isn't working out for you?
Volume?
Low bass?
Tone - as in distortion?

 

[Al Kraft]

As I look at your list of questions I can sympathize. I'm an engineer and some days I find myself trying to reconcile all those numbers and what I actually hear when I plug things together. The truth is that there are a handful of those specs that are crucial to understand when matching cabs and amps, and some that are useful but not always a perfect predictor of what you will hear when comparing the actual products while you're playing.

There is an excellent FAQ section at the beginning of this forum. If you haven't looked through it, I would recommend that you start there and get some necessary background to to able to see how all the specs fit in context with one another. You will find some of the answers answers to your questions there and also get a working foundational knowledge that will make the answers to the rest of your questions easier to understand and much more useful.

Very respectfully,
-Al

 

[ctmullins]

Power reserve. The more watts, the more power is available for making noise through a cab. Having the power doesn't mean it's always being used, just as you don't use your car's full power when getting groceries.

The problem is that different manufacturers claim wattage in different ways. The more reputable ones typically use RMS, which just means that it's a responsible method of stating real-world usable power.

Also, noise isn't made by watts. Noise is made by speakers mounted in speaker cabinets. More/better speakers are a quicker way to making more noise than having more watts.

 

[thewildest]

Watts = amps * volts
[how strong is a river] = [how wide the river] * [how fast the water flows]

The speaker where the wattage lands dissipates this wattage by moving the air. The specs (ohms, quality) are important.

Back to the river analogy, the difference a speaker would make is the same as putting a thin stick in the river or putting a sheet of playwood.

 

[jre5]

What is it about your Ibanez SWR65 that isn't working out for you?
Volume?

Volume. I love it for it's portability, and it's service as an amp in my room that has no need to get too loud, but when i bring it with me to play with others, in order to cut through in a live setting i'll have to crank the highs or have the guitarists turn it down a little bit. Playing through a friend's rig is a lot easier when available because volume won't be a problem for me, so I decided that eventually I would like to get my own. And after playing through some different rigs (at guitar stores, at a friend's house) i am really drawn to some of them. Once again, i love my ibanez but some of the amps i've had the privilege of playing through have just sounded so great.

 

[jre5]

Very respectfully,
-Al

Thank you!! I'll give that a look right now.

 

[g-dude]

If you have a higher wattage microwave, it'll cook your steak faster.

In terms of music, double the wattage gives you about 2 dB more volume, so you basically need around 8x the watts to be twice as loud.

That being said, guitar amps sound a lot louder watt per watt than bass amps do. Has to do not only with the amount of power needed to amplify different frequencies, but also how we experience those frequencies. It's why dBA is used as a hearing safety measure - turns out high frequencies will mess your hearing up faster than lower ones.

 

[juancaminos]

So you want to pull a camp trailer. You can shop for small truck with 4 - 6 cylinder engine that will get great gas mileage and get you from point A to point B in comfort plus it pull a small trailer, maybe a tent trailer. There will be all kinds of price differences between brands.

You get tired of that small trailer real fast so you buy a bigger one. Now you trade in that small truck for one of the Big 3 V8 powered trucks. You look at the Ford, Chevy, GMC and Dodge. The all have different horse power and torque ratings as well as different price points. You pick one that has more torque but is cheaper and all is well...for a while.

After talking with other RV owners at camp grounds where ever you go and now that you have another child and two more dogs you some to the conclusion that you want a big three axle monster 40 foot 5th wheel. But the RV dealer tells you that your "little" 3/4 ton truck will not have enough power to pull it. So now you go on the search for a one ton dually four door diesel truck. Once again you check out the Chevy, GMC, Ford and Dodge but this time you pick the most expensive one with leather interior, 8 channel stereo, A/C and heated seats, etc. regardless of horse power and torque ratings and it does fine.

Next you talk to the Diesel Pusher 45 foot motor home guys, then the converted bus guys and it never ends....

 

[Oldbasslover]

If you have a higher wattage microwave, it'll cook your steak faster.

In terms of music, double the wattage gives you about 2 dB more volume, so you basically need around 8x the watts to be twice as loud.

That being said, guitar amps sound a lot louder watt per watt than bass amps do. Has to do not only with the amount of power needed to amplify different frequencies, but also how we experience those frequencies. It's why dBA is used as a hearing safety measure - turns out high frequencies will mess your hearing up faster than lower ones.

The reason for that is due to the curvature of the cochlea. One can see on the illustration that the curvature of the cochlea is at the 4000Hz and so the sound pressure hits the cilia there and damages those. Noise induced hearing loss generally is initially seen as a spike loss at the 4000 Hz.

 

[Killing Floor]

1 kg⋅m2⋅s−3 Is really all you need to remember. That and don't have 400 more than your speakers can handle.
Watt is a unit of power. A Joule per second.
Electrically a Watt is 1 Amp times 1 Volt.
What you need to know as a bassist is that a Watt is not a unit of sound pressure.

 

[aprod]

Buy an amp with as many watts as you can afford. That allows for more headroom without distortion. You can always turn it down if needed.

 

[prowla]

A good rule of thumb is 10x Watts = 2x louder (given all other things equal).
You can relate the non-linearness to other real-world scenarios, for example doubling the horsepower of a car doesn't make it go twice as fast.

 

[jre5]

Watts = amps * volts
[how strong is a river] = [how wide the river] * [how fast the water flows]

The speaker where the wattage lands dissipates this wattage by moving the air. The specs (ohms, quality) are important.

Back to the river analogy, the difference a speaker would make is the same as putting a thin stick in the river or putting a sheet of playwood.

so would you say that even more important than the amp i get would be the speaker? Or just to make sure that the speaker is good enough to keep up with the amp? Or is that not what you were saying at all?

 

[jre5]

If you have a higher wattage microwave, it'll cook your steak faster.

In terms of music, double the wattage gives you about 2 dB more volume, so you basically need around 8x the watts to be twice as loud.

That being said, guitar amps sound a lot louder watt per watt than bass amps do. Has to do not only with the amount of power needed to amplify different frequencies, but also how we experience those frequencies. It's why dBA is used as a hearing safety measure - turns out high frequencies will mess your hearing up faster than lower ones.

So- watts DO correlate to volume, just not directly where you would notice every watt. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[jre5]

So you want to pull a camp trailer. You can shop for small truck with 4 - 6 cylinder engine that will get great gas mileage and get you from point A to point B in comfort plus it pull a small trailer, maybe a tent trailer. There will be all kinds of price differences between brands.

You get tired of that small trailer real fast so you buy a bigger one. Now you trade in that small truck for one of the Big 3 V8 powered trucks. You look at the Ford, Chevy, GMC and Dodge. The all have different horse power and torque ratings as well as different price points. You pick one that has more torque but is cheaper and all is well...for a while.

After talking with other RV owners at camp grounds where ever you go and now that you have another child and two more dogs you some to the conclusion that you want a big three axle monster 40 foot 5th wheel. But the RV dealer tells you that your "little" 3/4 ton truck will not have enough power to pull it. So now you go on the search for a one ton dually four door diesel truck. Once again you check out the Chevy, GMC, Ford and Dodge but this time you pick the most expensive one with leather interior, 8 channel stereo, A/C and heated seats, etc. regardless of horse power and torque ratings and it does fine.

Next you talk to the Diesel Pusher 45 foot motor home guys, then the converted bus guys and it never ends....

Very interesting analogy!! Thank you very much! This helps put it into perspective a lot more.

 

[jre5]

1 kg⋅m2⋅s−3 Is really all you need to remember. That and don't have 400 more than your speakers can handle.
Watt is a unit of power. A Joule per second.
Electrically a Watt is 1 Amp times 1 Volt.
What you need to know as a bassist is that a Watt is not a unit of sound pressure.

See, I understand that wattage measures power and not sound, but differentiating the effects that this will have on different amps is difficult for me to put in to perspective and how much of an affect it does take on sound and volume. So. When you say speakers are you referring to the cab? Or speakers in like a live setting? Because I saw in another post it's OK to have more wattage than said output can handle, as long as it's not all the way up. Better to have more than less? Not sure. Let me know. Thanks for your input, definitely helpful

 

[jre5]

Buy an amp with as many watts as you can afford. That allows for more headroom without distortion. You can always turn it down if needed.

Alright. So, for example if I were to get an 800 watt amp, what should I look for in a cab generally? More, less wattage than the head? Thanks.

 

[Sparky Mark]

Alright. So, for example if I were to get an 800 watt amp, what should I look for in a cab generally? More, less wattage than the head? Thanks.

No analogies, because none fully work. You should read up on the relationship between amplifier output power and speaker cabinet power handling and impedance. Simply put, an amplifier capable of outputting 800 watts into a 4 ohm impedance speaker cab will only be capable of outputting approximately half that (400) into an 8 ohm speaker cabinet.
If you were to buy and 800 watts (@4 ohm) amplifier and a 8 ohm cab rated 500 watts or higher you should be safe. Having said that, it's obvious that you are at the beginning of your bass playing journey and you must listen to your amp and speakers, not rely on the specifications; it's easy to destroy a 500 watt cab with a 200 watt amplifier if you ignore the sound of the speakers hitting their limits (distorted, hard clicks, farting type sounds for example).
Buying an 8 ohm cab initially will also allow you to add a second 8 ohm cab later if you wanted more volume.