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Could this be counterproductive?

Richie Se7en

Richie Se7en

Presently distractivated
Jan 11, 2015
803
1,077
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Shadow of South Philly
#1
I've been learning to play for 6-8 months and I'm starting to see some progress. I'm 58 years-old and basically just want to jam with friends - no career or band aspirations here. I have Raynaud's (a sporadic circulation problem in my fingers) and the occasional bouts with arthritis that come with my age, which can make fretting on busy lines difficult.

Anyway, I've adopted a practice where, while I'm learning a song and/or practicing finger exercises - depending on how my hands feel - I switch between a 34" scale Fender and a 30" short-scale Gibson SG. I also try to play/practice exclusively using my fingers, but they can't quite keep up on some songs or exercises, which prompts me to reach for a pick. My question is this:

Do you consider this to be a wrong approach to learning, and can it be a detriment to the pace I'm progressing? Would I be better off to just stop switching up and decide on one or the other? I'm not so much concerned about my right hand, as I find a pick to be the better choice for some songs and sounds (Cream, Beatles, etc.).

I do realize a logical answer would be to continue alternating between the two, as many accomplished players use multiple basses, but I really don't care to be lugging two guitars (plus my amp, etc.) to informal jam sessions. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.

Rich
 
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#2
I should add that although the Gibson has a fine sound, it seems the longer scale Fender is much, more versatile - in terms of sustain, versatility and the all-around feel of a true bass guitar. Without the limitations of my finger afflictions, A preference for the long-scale would be a no-brainer IMO.

Thanks for any advice you would share.
 
#3
Richie Se7en said:
I've been learning to play for 6-8 months and I'm starting to see some progress. I'm 58 years-old and basically just want to jam with friends - no career or band aspirations here. I have Raynaud's (a sporadic circulation problem in my fingers) and the occasional bouts with arthritis that come with my age, which can make fretting on busy lines difficult.
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This is coming from a guy that has 80 year old hands, fingers, back, etc. So I understand that there are times we have to cut ourselves some slack. I slide when I need to slide and I sit when it is no longer comfortable to stand. With this in mind....

............I also try to play/practice exclusively using my fingers, but they can't quite keep up on some songs or exercises, which prompts me to reach for a pick. My question is this: Do you consider this to be a wrong approach to learning
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Each song dictates what is needed. Fingers, pick, thumb or slap. No need to be a one trick pony. But facing facts - for you and I this music thing is a hobby. You are 8 months into this; chill out and use which ever one lets you play some songs.

Its called playing because its fun.
 
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#6
Thanks for the advice, guys. Malcolm: I respect your thoughts and hope I'm still around with the energy to play at 80. One of my points - with which I'm sure you can identify - is I don't care to be lugging a 75 lb. amp and two guitar cases around. Plus, some songs we like to play are really a stretch (sorry) for me on a 34" scale.
I am having fun and you can be sure that, whether jamming in a basement or at a yard party, my butt is firmly planted on a cushioned stool.

Rich
 
#7
I would think what you are doing is fine. Your left hand is still learning where to go and I would think that switching scales would in fact help with that. Going between say a 34" Fender and say a 21" U Bass could be counterproductive. Right hand will be able to figure out where to go either way. Good luck!
 
#8
LeeNunn said:
I'm impressed with anyone who picks up a hobby later in life. It's one of the keys to happiness. The Beatles? Cream? Great bands with great bass players to cover. There's just no downside to any of this. This is wonderful.
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I appreciate that, Lee - and yes, I see nothing but upside and a whole lot of fun, because I've always had an ear for music (esp. bass) and loved many genres. I'm one who can chill with Sinatra, but also believes I can "hear Jimi" - and Noel, of course. :D

I'm just not sure if it's good or bad that I strive to learn using the works of Jamerson, McCartney, Geezer, and (early Chicago) Cetera - but that's what we like to play - and if I can cover them to an extent, I feel I'm heading in a good direction.

Rich
 
#10
Schlyder said:
Switching up fingers and pick is fine. Eventually your fingers will get the strength, and stamina, and callouses to be able to do most anything. You can still use a pick for some things, but I think you will find fingers more versatile and expressive.
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I agree completely... now if only my fingers didn't relate to signals from my brain like a rebellious teenager to a strict parent I'd be fine. ;)

Thanks,
Rich
 
#12
If you dig the tone of the pick, by all means use it, but if you go for it because you want to play faster, I say hold back and stick to the digits -- they can be every bit as fast, just takes practice.
 
#13
OP, I think it's always better to consistently play a single instrument (or at least stick to the same scale length) when you are starting out. But, your physical health is more important, so if you need to switch back and forth, do it.

I would suggest that you concentrate on relaxing, and playing with the least amount of finger pressure possible. It's probably less pressure than you think you need. Search YouTube for a Gary Willis video on this, he is the master of ergonomics and relaxation.

Also, unlike other instruments, in most styles you can play bass just fine using 4, 3, 2, or even just one finger to fret the notes. Rocco Prestia plays incredibly fast and precise lines almost exclusively with a single finger. Danny Morris, a Berklee bass professor, also plays this way and does awesome old-school R&B. Just practice moving your hand and arm instead of your fingers. On a long gig, I will sometimes do this to ease the load on my hands. At the very least, look into playing with 124 fingering, using a 3 fret span, rather than the 1 finger per fret method.
 
#14
smeet said:
Also, unlike other instruments, in most styles you can play bass just fine using 4, 3, 2, or even just one finger to fret the notes. Rocco Prestia plays incredibly fast and precise lines almost exclusively with a single finger. Danny Morris, a Berklee bass professor, also plays this way and does awesome old-school R&B. Just practice moving your hand and arm instead of your fingers. On a long gig, I will sometimes do this to ease the load on my hands. At the very least, look into playing with 124 fingering, using a 3 fret span, rather than the 1 finger per fret method.
Click to expand...

This is what I've been doing while playing the long-scale - because most times I find it difficult to go 4 across 4 anywhere below the 6th-7th fret. Exercising one finger per fret is what I've been trying to do on the short-scale, assuming it's the better technique in the long run. But I guess it's best to stick with what feels best and try to improve at what best suits me.

BTW - I love Tower of Power and never knew that Prestia played mainly with one finger. Then again, I've always been a huge fan of Jamerson, so I'm down with the magic that can be produced using a single digit... even while laying drunk on a floor. :confused:

Thanks again for all the advice, guys. It's well appreciated!

Rich
 
#15
My understanding is that Jamerson's single finger (the "hook") referred to his right hand, whereas Rocco's single finger was mostly his left hand. I can't imagine playing 16th notes at the speed Rocco played using just one plucking finger. Rocco's left hand does move quite a bit. Please set me straight if I'm confused.
 
#16
LeeNunn said:
My understanding is that Jamerson's single finger (the "hook") referred to his right hand, whereas Rocco's single finger was mostly his left hand. I can't imagine playing 16th notes at the speed Rocco played using just one plucking finger. Rocco's left hand does move quite a bit. Please set me straight if I'm confused.
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You are correct, as the OP stated he was most worried about his left hand. Rocco plucks with two fingers on the right hand. His left hand fingers mostly with the index finger, and the rest of the fingers drape over the strings for muting. I've been using that technique lately, it produces a stronger sound than palm muting. I believe Jamerson played 124 with his left hand, since he was an upright player.

If you combined Rocco's left hand and Jamerson's right, you would get an amazing player who could do it all with one finger on each hand. Hmmm...

EDIT: OP, also think about the way double bassists play, since they deal with a 40" or 41" scale. They use 1-2-4 fingering, move a lot from the shoulder instead of stretching the fingers, and the fingerboard is vertical instead of horizontal. Tilting the electric bass upward to 45 degrees or even higher, and wearing the bass higher with a shorter strap can help to ease stress on the left hand.
 
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#18
Wow, "smeet"... I hastily misinterpreted your earlier comment about Prestia. So if I'm understanding this, Rocco used only his index finger to fret all the notes he was playing? If this is what you're saying, meaning his left hand, I think that's absolutely amazing! That is honestly something I never would've even imagined could be possible at that level. I'm hearing 'What Is Hip' and 'Squib Cakes' in the back of my mind right now and can't wait to get to my music collection for a large dose of TOP.

Maybe this is a well-known, more-commonly practiced technique than I think, or I'm making it out to be bigger than it is. Either way, this isn't simply an interesting fact to me, but more so a huge boost to my confidence level and one example of the possibilities to overcome any barriers or afflictions that might impede my progress or create frustration. I'll discover the technique (and maybe a scale) that fits me, and have a bunch of fun finding it... now that's What is Hip :thumbsup:

Thanks to all of you for the kind words and generous advice.

Rich
 
#19
I found an excerpt from Rocco's instructional video on youtube, I guess he actually uses his middle (2nd) finger and mutes with ring and pinky.
This video shows him doing it with the band at the beginning, explanation at around 5:20.


You're right, he doesn't appear to do it for most of "What is Hip", but as awkward as it seems, I've found that it produces a sound and feel that's hard to get any other way.
 

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