yes music is language i agree but that has been played to death. take a second year music student and try to teach them to write like Palestrina ? C'mon, nobody can write like Palestrina ! show 'em the rrudiments fer christ's sake...Man, everything here has to get so ****ing complicated it make me want to scream ! I'm out.
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Double Bass Counter Point basics
- Thread starter walters
- Start date
"Jane you ignorant slut.."
Yeah we should avoid getting too flowery about all this.
You shouldn't underestimate the following factors in regards to counterpoint:
trial and error
reworking
luck
One of the previous posts that summed up what you need to know is pretty accurate. I learned exactly the same rules when I studied species counterpoint and composition:
contrary motion between sop and bass gooood
parallel 5ths, 8ves, 4ths baaaaaaddd....
3rd, 6ths sound good but unrelenting gets boring
Direct 5ths, 8ves should be avoided (this one sometimes needs to be heard. It depends on the line. I rewrote one case)
resolve 2nds, 7ths dissonances.
Listen alot to Bach. But also Handel, and some of the other melodic Baroque composers such as Corelli. They are a little closer to earth
It's also interesting to listen to pre-classical composers who simplified counterpoint somewhat but were codifying the art of form such as Scarlatti and CPE Bach
Sometimes you just respond to your natural inclinations. This often the chicken/egg thing. You'd be surprised out how often you are compelled to write something that just comes to you in response to something you're hearing and how often it works. Not always but you know...
Definitely start with 2 voices. In reference to studying vs. doing. I never really got beyond 2 voice counterpoint studies in school (it wasn't required) yet I did a 3 voice fugue while studying composition. The rules come up when you are verifying whether something sounds ok. Very often a bad part is indeed a violation of the rules. You'd be surprised how often a rewrite will work better on a previously "fixed" part.
Currently I'm into bar 25 of an extremely peppy 4 part counterpoint written for string quartet (supposedly). I'm writing a day at a time in finale. Ed has heard it. I have found finale notepad to be a very good tool for composing and playing back. Although there is some type of black hole issue in one bar that won't play back beat 4 of violin I (wierd!). There are definitely some rule violations in there in one passage but the two voices I feel the line is so strong that I just won't change it. Sue me. The biggest challenge is in the 3rd and forth parts- because this is triadic writing and you can't just mechanically pick "the other part of the triad". A few times I wrote exact 8va or exact doublings for a few notes that I had to rewrite. I was cued in by the "thinning" of the parts on playback. Again finale is pretty cool for this. Just plug in and fix.
You should also dive right in with canonic writing and fugue (imitation at the 5th). I did a fugue version of solar written for Joe Cohn's album "Two Funky People". Doug and Joe disliked the intro and ending material I wrote so I redid them. Again. don't afraid to screw up.
Just do it..
Yeah we should avoid getting too flowery about all this.
You shouldn't underestimate the following factors in regards to counterpoint:
trial and error
reworking
luck
One of the previous posts that summed up what you need to know is pretty accurate. I learned exactly the same rules when I studied species counterpoint and composition:
contrary motion between sop and bass gooood
parallel 5ths, 8ves, 4ths baaaaaaddd....
3rd, 6ths sound good but unrelenting gets boring
Direct 5ths, 8ves should be avoided (this one sometimes needs to be heard. It depends on the line. I rewrote one case)
resolve 2nds, 7ths dissonances.
Listen alot to Bach. But also Handel, and some of the other melodic Baroque composers such as Corelli. They are a little closer to earth
It's also interesting to listen to pre-classical composers who simplified counterpoint somewhat but were codifying the art of form such as Scarlatti and CPE BachSometimes you just respond to your natural inclinations. This often the chicken/egg thing. You'd be surprised out how often you are compelled to write something that just comes to you in response to something you're hearing and how often it works. Not always but you know...
Definitely start with 2 voices. In reference to studying vs. doing. I never really got beyond 2 voice counterpoint studies in school (it wasn't required) yet I did a 3 voice fugue while studying composition. The rules come up when you are verifying whether something sounds ok. Very often a bad part is indeed a violation of the rules. You'd be surprised how often a rewrite will work better on a previously "fixed" part.
Currently I'm into bar 25 of an extremely peppy 4 part counterpoint written for string quartet (supposedly). I'm writing a day at a time in finale. Ed has heard it. I have found finale notepad to be a very good tool for composing and playing back. Although there is some type of black hole issue in one bar that won't play back beat 4 of violin I (wierd!). There are definitely some rule violations in there in one passage but the two voices I feel the line is so strong that I just won't change it. Sue me. The biggest challenge is in the 3rd and forth parts- because this is triadic writing and you can't just mechanically pick "the other part of the triad". A few times I wrote exact 8va or exact doublings for a few notes that I had to rewrite. I was cued in by the "thinning" of the parts on playback. Again finale is pretty cool for this. Just plug in and fix.
You should also dive right in with canonic writing and fugue (imitation at the 5th). I did a fugue version of solar written for Joe Cohn's album "Two Funky People". Doug and Joe disliked the intro and ending material I wrote so I redid them. Again. don't afraid to screw up.
Just do it..
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Despite alla the high brow/ low brow going on, I still think WALLY GATOR is shotgunning all these questions for reasons other than needing specific answers to these questions.
SOLAR is fun to play. Jon curses a lot when he misses the left hand line...
SOLAR is fun to play. Jon curses a lot when he misses the left hand line...
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