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Counting and playing at the same time
- Thread starter chunami
- Start date
The only tip I have is to count out loud instead of in your head, if you are not already doing that.
Put the bass down for a minute. Count while clapping the rhythm. After doing that a few times, pick the bass up and count/play it. Once you have a lot of practice doing it this way you can cut out the clapping part.
All time signatures have a pattern. Take Five by Dave Brubeck is in 5/4 but you count 3 and 2. Find the pattern and count that, it's much easier.
Whipping Post by The Allman Brothers starts in 11/4, but you don't count 11 beats you count 3-3-3-2.
Whipping Post by The Allman Brothers starts in 11/4, but you don't count 11 beats you count 3-3-3-2.
Drum machine app? Like RDM or something? Play along with the beat and you can practice counting and not counting.
As chris_b said, you can break the bars into smaller chunks that can be easier to count. Bars in 5 can be counted 123-12 or 12-123 or 1234-1, etc. If you haven’t done so already, try counting out the beats while just listening, as opposed to while playing along.
They don't call odd time signatures compound for nothing. The basic pulse can always be broken down into two or more subdvisions. Playing in 5/4 can mean different pulses. 3-2, 2-3, etc. Even 6/8, the time signature for Irish jigs is a compound meter, 3-3, and it does not feel at all like a waltz, it feels like triplets.
1) spend some time in basic territory, read music in 4/4 3/4 6/8 5/4 cut-time etc. If you can’t keep up with 16ths and triplets in those than you’re not ready for odd time.
2) Listen to music in whatever time signature you’re working with and try counting along with that. You need to be able to feel where the 1 is at all times.
3) There are a number of tricks to make counting easier via subdivision.
For example try counting 5/4 as a bar of 2 and then a bar of 3 (or vice versa, depending on the groove). A lot of this can be learned by studying theory and classical music. You don’t have drums most of the time so the pulse can be harder to follow forcing you to count.
Ideally, you’re only counting to learn the material. You shouldn’t need much more than a steady beat to get through the song once you know it well. Unless you’re getting into super technical territory, but by then you should be very comfortable counting.
Three things:
- Practice
- Practice
- Practice
Ultimately you don’t count it. You feel it. But that only comes from having practiced counting it for years.
You can do exercises without the bass, clapping and singing something in odd times will get you used to it.
Also dont forget to listen to a lot of music with that time signature. Counting is cool but remember that these time signatures also have a groove of their own, and that cant really be explained with words. And once you understand the groove, counting becomes much easier.
Also dont forget to listen to a lot of music with that time signature. Counting is cool but remember that these time signatures also have a groove of their own, and that cant really be explained with words. And once you understand the groove, counting becomes much easier.
Yeah, in music theory we learned verbally counting, triplets, choc-a-let. List went on & on.
Takadimi, konnakol and Gordon system, two sides of the same coin are great to sense rhythm and play around it in order to internalize patterns.
When it's done well :
When it's done well :
Greg Allman's "Queen of Hearts" was in my repertoire for a while. 11/8 sounded intimidating until the BL said "Think of it as a lumpy waltz." And so 1-2-3/2-2-3/3-2-3/4-1 and etc.
Get yourself a book on rhythm,then set metronome to slow pace and tap out the rhythm of the notes you see. Learn to read and tap it out before picking up your instrument.
Next get your bass and read the same book but now play the bass on one string and open string is fine. Mute the notes and let them ring out as needed for the note duration. Again, go slow.
Next get your bass and read the same book but now play the bass on one string and open string is fine. Mute the notes and let them ring out as needed for the note duration. Again, go slow.
This.
No one counts 4/4 you just "know" how to feel it. Repetition will get you to the point where you can feel any time signature.
Break down the count into it's component parts then, when that's in your head, you'll naturally stop counting and feel the pulse of the music.
Can you do it in 4? And can you do it with heavily syncopated rhythms?
There are different ways to group odd time signatures but if a counting problem exists in a time that we play in all day everyday then it's going to become an even bigger problem in odd times.
Good advice above. I'll add my ( relative newby ) 2 cents, even if you're facile in even time signatures . . .
For example, with 5/4 time, play something very simple, e.g. E-E-E-E-E while counting.
Move on to E-A-E-A-E, then maybe E-A-D-A-E. You're just getting your fingers to move in accordance with the time while you adjust your internal clock.
Follow with something like R-3-5-3-R, or R-3-5-8-5, then as you get the feel, move on to more complexity.
I bet you'll feel comfortable in short order.
For example, with 5/4 time, play something very simple, e.g. E-E-E-E-E while counting.
Move on to E-A-E-A-E, then maybe E-A-D-A-E. You're just getting your fingers to move in accordance with the time while you adjust your internal clock.
Follow with something like R-3-5-3-R, or R-3-5-8-5, then as you get the feel, move on to more complexity.
I bet you'll feel comfortable in short order.
