Cover Band annoyance

[Jughead6]

No i was responding to o.ps post. What are you getting at? I can't tell if this is a snark or a moment of respectful disagreement?

You seemed to imply that a bunch of us are dumb for not playing covers note for note, which some might find insulting. Don't worry, I wasn't offended. My bandmates and I actually enjoy the process of modifying (some might say compromising) cover songs in favour of practicality, hence my comments about making friends through abandoning idealism.

 

[I Need a six...]

You seemed to imply that a bunch of us are dumb for not playing covers note for note, which some might find insulting. Don't worry, I wasn't offended. My bandmates and I actually enjoy the process of modifying (some might say compromising) cover songs in favour of practicality, hence my comments about making friends through abandoning idealism.

I implied nothing, I said using backtracks was dumb. you my friend made the implications, that's just how we do it. As long as it's live, I respect it, note for note or not. And I'm not mad at you or anything, it's hard to tell in text

 

[cheapbasslovin]

You seemed to imply that a bunch of us are dumb for not playing covers note for note, which some might find insulting. Don't worry, I wasn't offended. My bandmates and I actually enjoy the process of modifying (some might say compromising) cover songs in favour of practicality, hence my comments about making friends through abandoning idealism.

I implied nothing, I said using backtracks was dumb. you my friend made the implications, that's just how we do it. As long as it's live, I respect it, note for note or not. And I'm not mad at you or anything, it's hard to tell in text

It's OK, I'm mad at both of you. Grrr.

I think I would prefer a band not using much in the way of backing tracks. We don't use them now, but we do move stuff around. Keys cover a lot of instruments, I've covered a guitar from time to time and the lone guitarist does what he can to cover two guitar parts.

If you're in a general purpose cover band without keys; you're in a world of hurt, you're making some changes to the songs, or you're dropping in some backing tracks. You gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[1954bassman]

MTV killed live music. Backing tracks, karaoke, lip-syncing are all part of life now. There are still purist out there. I don't listen much to main stream music much, mostly Christian music.

If backing tracks, etc are being used locally in churches (not sure to be honest, but they probably are somewhat) I would say it is due to lack of talent. In my area, a lot of the better Christian musicians quit playing in church due to a lot of the reasons we read right here on Talkbass.

There is also a general lack of financial support for live local bands, especially in churches.

Most of the local bands using background tracks are using them to "sound better", which translates to me as "lack of talent".

I understand this canned music is a part of life, and some bands cannot pull their show off without it. I honestly have no feelings either way, right or wrong it thrives amongst us live musicians.

 

[Medicine Man]

it's hard for me to accept the idea of background tracks in a coverband, and I wouldn't use it. But it's just a sign of the times. Sorry guys, if you go to these summer music festivals, almost every act is using backing tracks for their original acts. If you are covering a band which uses background tracks using background tracks is it still lame? I'm so confused....

 

[Bodeanly]

I may be in the minority, but when I see a band live, I want to hear something different than I do in polished recordings. I want to hear the emptiness during the guitar lead, the lack of vocal harmonies, the occasional fudged note. I want to be reminded that we are all human. For me, backing tracks are one step closer to the absolute murder of live Rock 'n Roll.

 

[GuiTuber]

In my opinion, this is right up there with leaning on an iPad, or a music stand, for the lyrics/chords.

Why add a song to your repetoire that you don't have the instrumentation for? There are plenty of other songs out there to choose from.

I know, it's all about playing what the crowd wants to hear, but if you go in to McDonalds, do you walk out because they don't serve spaghetti? You can't be all things to all people.

I know a guy that makes it as a solo act. He plays guitar and uses loopers for a percussion backing and then for some rhythm backing when he solos. He is very practiced at it and if you closed your eyes, you'd think you were listening to multiple musicians. I get it, for him. The only part that is distracting, to me anyway, is that to start every song, he puts his guitar down, goes over to sit on the cajon and gets a beat going. He clicks no the looper to grab a sample, then gets up and grabs his guitar and starts playing. The end result is pretty impressive for one person, it's just the process he has to go through to start every song is kind of a buzz kill.

Anyone remember Tim Buk 3? My future's so bright I gotta wear shades? Well, I saw them at the Coach House, in San Juan Capistrano, back in the mid-80's. It was just the two of them.... and a tape machine. They had a recorded sound that everyone was used to, so I understood the need for the backing tracks for playing live.

The acoustic group I'm in, we have two guitars, percussion, harmonica (and other noise makers) and myself on bass. We choose songs that we can make sound good. We don't do Bohemian Rhapsody just because the audience wants to hear it. We can't reproduce it ourselves, so it doesn't get played. We have to change keys on some songs to accommodate our singer's range and we take a little artistic license here and there to make things a little unique, but we do what we know we can reproduce ourselves.

Personally, I think it's a disservice to the audience to not play everything they're going to hear. The sad part is that some people in the audience don't even know they're being insulted.

 

[obimark]

That's, wow. I'm I a cover band and we work hard to make the songs unique and note note for note covers. This seems really dumb to me, like we shouldn't do so much work, if people like this kind of stuff. But hey, this cover group won't last that long anyway, as I strongly prefer to play in a original act

Good point. In a cover band, you can get close to the essence of the song, but unless you have a very big roster with 2 guitars, acoutsic guitar, keys, horns, three singers, you'd be surprised what you CAN'T cover "note-for-note". Even some of what seem to be simple Led Zep songs, have 5 guitar parts! And many of them JPJ added little organ pieces in the background.

Listen to Led Zep play- "Ten Years Gone" live. It sounds WEAK- why? Because JPJ doesn't play ANY bass on it, all keyboards.... At least they didn't "Cheat" I guess.

But playing with a backing track with all instrumentation?? You might as well just be a DJ.

 

[obimark]

There are plenty of other songs out there to choose from.
.

See my other post- you'd be surprised how many songs have instruments/tracks you won't be able to re-produce live. (Although on many of them they are forgettable).
Led Zep tracked 5-6 guitar tracks on most of their songs. Nobody is covering/covered them correctly, INCLUDING Led Zep themselves!

 

[Joe Nerve]

I never played in a cover group with backing tracks, but did several original shows... and half of them trainwrecked in one way or another. One I remember they insisted on my playing bass over the bass, and it just sounded like a horror show to me. 2 others, we couldn't hear the tracks in the monitors, and I don't have to tell you how the rest went.

I don't have anything against using backing tracks, and actually wish some of the cover groups I play in would use them. I do however think there are some things that people need to be really careful about.

1. Not overdoing it.
2. Not overdoing the bass.
3. Making absolutely certain beforehand that the entire band can hear the tracks, or if not, that the drummer is impeccable, and that he/she can hear them clearly no matter what.
4. That the band is well rehearsed.
5. That the band knows the count on each song before either the tracks, or the entire band kick in.

I'm sure there's more to be careful with, but I'm not completely awake yet .

One of the last original groups I played with, our soundcheck got nixed, and we couldn't hear anything but drums when we hit the stage. Drummer counted off the first song, but either screwed it up, or decided to click in before a 2 count snynthesized intro. It was the bands first performance ever, pretty decent crowd, adrenaline pumping - and, well, it's something I'd really like to erase from my memory banks.

 

[BAG]

I hate backing tracks with a passion, whether it be for bands, duos or soloists.... but that's just my opinion.

I'm in a band with acoustic guitar, ukulele and me on bass and double kick Invalid Link Removed. The other is my kids on acoustic guitars and me on bass with the eldest on Woodskin as well. If we cover a song we try to get the general feel of the song and do what can be done with what we have. I think of it as akin to a band like the Foo Fighters doing an acoustic version of their songs. It's not meant to be exactly like the original, but it's meant to have feeling and good musicianship.
Once a band (or duo or solo) starts using backing tracks they lose some credibility in my eyes due to the fact that I start wondering how much of what I'm hearing is on the track and how little (if anything) is actually being played live. You never really know and that ruins the gig for me.

One venue I was managing had soloists and duos playing every Friday night and the first few weeks i was running the place the quality was woeful until i was able to get some quality acts in. One night I was surprised to hear a decent guitar solo but when I opened my office door I was disgusted to see that the guitarist was still playing rhythm while the solo was on the backing track. I was expecting the opposite. That was the last time that duo played at my venue.

 

[gfaulkner]

One of the bands I'm in started with a drummer who also is a DJ and played in event/wedding bands for years.We are a three piece with a lead singer and cover songs from 60's rock to pop tunes out now.This drummer had mentioned using backing tracks to cover certain parts of a few songs,and the guitar player and I were not at all interested in that approach and told him straight-up,NO.This particular drummer ended up getting fired on account of insecurity issues regarding a fill-in we needed to cover a gig that the original drummer had booked a DJ gig over top of.Much drama and paranoia later and we had a new drummer.I figured the backing track idea was another facet of his insecurity,IMHO.

 

[danosix]

I saw a cover band the other night and they had me curious about many things and wondered if others do what they are doing. I was never in a full blown cover band and rarely see them play but when I do, ive come across some really good acts.

Overall the band was good.. great vocals, gear etc... but I noticed that every single song they played... they were using a backing track? I get it if you're playing "We are Family" and dont have a piano player but it honestly sounded more like karaoke to me. The bass player looked like he was just popping on rootnotes because the bass was coming through the track. No stage presence, not much any convo between songs and they had stands with sheet music.

Probably the first time I saw a band with good musicians where I truly didnt give a crap and left early. Is running a backing track normal for any of you folks here?

I don't generally go for the backing track thing anyway, and think that if you can't cover it adequately with Drums, Bass and two guitars or guitar and keyboard you need to either drop it from your repertoire or add musicians to your band.
Having said that, backing tracks themselves aren't evil per se if you add only the horn parts you're missing or whatever. If a full band is playing to full backing tracks so that the bass player can't really play the right parts for fear of muddying up the sound, that's just bad. I'd never play in a band where I couldn't actually properly play. It just wouldn't be fun or rewarding "artistically" to play roots while a sequencer gets to play the good parts. It would also just be a little embarrassing to be playing to tracks knowing that in the audience are musicians who can tell and think that I and/or my band-mates can't play the parts ourselves.
It's also - as others have said - just kinda lazy. Figure out a way to make it work with the instruments you have, that's the first and most basic step to of creating your band's "sound".

 

[BAG]

In my opinion, this is right up there with leaning on an iPad, or a music stand, for the lyrics/chords.

I know a guy that makes it as a solo act. He plays guitar and uses loopers for a percussion backing and then for some rhythm backing when he solos. He is very practiced at it and if you closed your eyes, you'd think you were listening to multiple musicians. I get it, for him. The only part that is distracting, to me anyway, is that to start every song, he puts his guitar down, goes over to sit on the cajon and gets a beat going. He clicks no the looper to grab a sample, then gets up and grabs his guitar and starts playing. The end result is pretty impressive for one person, it's just the process he has to go through to start every song is kind of a buzz kill.

I can understand the tablet for reminders if you're doing a huge repertoire and for fill-in players etc. At least they can be very subtle and don't stick out too much on a dark stage like the old A4 folder did. I prefer not to use them myself and would rather do songs I know well though.

As for looping, I don't see it as like using backing tracks, as long as it is used live without pre-recorded stuff. Once again, that's just the way I like it. I can understand your frustration about the player you mentioned. I've seen some good ones, the best of which is probably Claude Hay. Below is an example of his stuff live. My only criticism of him is that his songs can start to sound a bit same-same after an hour, which is why he's now touring with a rhythm section. He still usually does the first part of a set by himself and the second part as a three piece.

Watch right through to the end part where he does a bit of slap bass (he built that double necker himself from scratch too!!). Not bad for a guitarist......

 

[lancimouspitt]

I think before I used a backing track I would just run my virtual instruments through mixcraft and play the parts with a keyboard.

 

[john_g]

We use backing tracks for a handful of songs, but its only for keyboard parts that need to be there. Carry on my wayward son for example. We tried the piano/organ/keys parts on guitar and it didnt sound right. Our drummer/lead singer was originally a keyboardist for 20 years in other bands, so he put together some stuff and it works great. We would never put any other instrument into a backing track though, just the keys.

 

[BAG]

Does someone pretend to play the keys? The reason I ask is that, if not, part of me would think "if there's keys on a track, what else is tracked? "

In saying that, 99.9% of people wouldn't know or care...... so just ignore me.

 

[GuiTuber]

As for looping, I don't see it as like using backing tracks, as long as it is used live without pre-recorded stuff. Once again, that's just the way I like it. I can understand your frustration about the player you mentioned. I've seen some good ones, the best of which is probably Claude Hay. Below is an example of his stuff live. My only criticism of him is that his songs can start to sound a bit same-same after an hour, which is why he's now touring with a rhythm section. He still usually does the first part of a set by himself and the second part as a three piece.

The guy I was referring to also tends to sound the same from song to song. It's the beat he gets going on the cajon. It always sounds like the previous song and when he gets in to a solo, the songs really start to sound the same.

The guy is a very talented musician and has his act down really, really well. Just like Claude Hay, you don't hear any effect of starting and stopping the loopers, like timing. That has got to take a lot of practice and I respect this guy for the work he has put in to his act.

 

[moody]

I am in a tribute band. We don't use backing tracks but due to the limitations of the band we are looking at the next worst thing. Vocal harmonisers for the lead singer and myself (main backing vocal). We have a third vocal but he is the first to admit he isn't great.

When programmed correctly (They will be or we won't use them) there will definitely be the odd extra vocal that there aren't enough microphones for. Is this better or worse than a backing track?

 

[rtav]

IN my Porpcupine Tree tribute band, we're lucky to have 4 vocalists who work on their harmonies, so it's not a problem, although we sample a good bit of PT's ambient noises.