Covers vs Originals

[BatBasstard]

Your read is correct.
TalkBass (on the EB side) skews heavily to the classic rock cover band, weekend gigger, day job having, Fender P fan, don't stand out, do what the band leader says, no $ above the 5th fret types.

But, there are people here who not only play in original bands, but actually are song writers. There are people here who don't play P basses because the producer can't mix anything else, they _are_ the producer. There are people looking for new sounds rather than "fit in" sounds and there are people who are looking for ways to apply new technology to their creative expression.

The second group is in the minority here. And, alas, too many of them are young and wondering what the best bass for Metal is. But if you have an intelligent question about gear, or the biz, or whatever, there are folks here that might have something you might like to read about. Just be prepared for the haters, because the first group can't stand the second group and feels they _must_ throw shade on them whenever possible.

This post is incredibly helpful.

 

[Microbass]

I’m just trying to get a read on whether my impression of this forum’s make up is accurate.

I get the sense that the vast majority of post are about covers bands playing the bars/cover friendly festival circuit rather than people in originals bands trying to create a fanbase and playing the Live Music Venue, Small/Medium/Large Music Festival circuit (in the U.K. I guess that would look like Wildpaths/Latitude/Glastonbury for context of what I mean. I don’t know the American equivalent for Small or Medium but the equivalent for large would be like Burning Man or Lollapalooza).

Obviously both are equally valid I’m just trying to understand if the advice/experiences I’m reading here are substantially more from one camp than the other.

I don’t know if there’s a way of running a poll? (Mods?) but if not perhaps if people just sound off?

For my part, although I have played in covers bands in the past (punk covers, Mod covers, BritPop & Funk bands at various points) I’m now in an indierock/pop band writing, recording & releasing original material, playing small “Live Music Venues” & just starting to get booked into small regional festivals for next summer.

I get the general feeling that in Band Management forum a lot of the posters are cover bands. The general advice of replacing the drummer or not putting up with certain behaviours is a lot easier in a cover band where a decent player can fill in on a weekend gig and do quite well from reading a chart or learn the songs by listening to records compared to firing the drummer in the originals band who is your best mate of 20 years and then spending 6-12months getting a new guy up to speed on the originals set. Always makes me laugh.

Across TB I'd imagine the overall type of player will be skewed towards the cover band/function band but probably not as big of a split as you'd expect.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Your read is correct.
TalkBass (on the EB side) skews heavily to the classic rock cover band, weekend gigger, day job having, Fender P fan, don't stand out, do what the band leader says, no $ above the 5th fret types.

But, there are people here who not only play in original bands, but actually are song writers. There are people here who don't play P basses because the producer can't mix anything else, they _are_ the producer. There are people looking for new sounds rather than "fit in" sounds and there are people who are looking for ways to apply new technology to their creative expression.

The second group is in the minority here. And, alas, too many of them are young and wondering what the best bass for Metal is. But if you have an intelligent question about gear, or the biz, or whatever, there are folks here that might have something you might like to read about. Just be prepared for the haters, because the first group can't stand the second group and feels they _must_ throw shade on them whenever possible.

That there might be the most accurate description of the TB crowd I ever read . All ya missed were the people who never talk bass at all (who are some of the nicest here) and the people who love tort, flats and carrots.

 

[SteveCS]

...
For my part, although I have played in covers bands in the past (punk covers, Mod covers, BritPop & Funk bands at various points) I’m now in an indierock/pop band writing, recording & releasing original material, playing small “Live Music Venues” & just starting to get booked into small regional festivals for next summer.

It seems to me that many folks used do things the other way around. I spent many years in 'original' bands in the mid '80s and '90s, touting around UK pubs, clubs and venues, inviting record company A+R folks to gigs, hiring vans, doing mini-tours that just about broke even, playing show-cases and sending of demo tapes. Many times the stages were shared with the same bands or individuals all in the same position and chasing the same opportunities, and many times the "faces" showing up were the same. There were lots of "close but no cigar" moments but never any "big breaks" that stuck. But I loved every minute and have no (few?) regrets. So now it is pubs, bars and covers all the way. And purely for the pleasure of playing live to an appreciative audience that is already familiar with most of the music and for owners that will cover costs and keep us fed. I've done new arrangements for a few of the originals that I have rights to, but that was just before the pandemic and there has been no opportunity yet to try those out with an actual living audience.

 

[Guitalia]

Your read is correct.
TalkBass (on the EB side) skews heavily to the classic rock cover band, weekend gigger, day job having, Fender P fan, don't stand out, do what the band leader says, no $ above the 5th fret types.

But, there are people here who not only play in original bands, but actually are song writers. There are people here who don't play P basses because the producer can't mix anything else, they _are_ the producer. There are people looking for new sounds rather than "fit in" sounds and there are people who are looking for ways to apply new technology to their creative expression.

The second group is in the minority here. And, alas, too many of them are young and wondering what the best bass for Metal is. But if you have an intelligent question about gear, or the biz, or whatever, there are folks here that might have something you might like to read about. Just be prepared for the haters, because the first group can't stand the second group and feels they _must_ throw shade on them whenever possible.

Yours is the first post in this thread that "throws shade." Most of the posts by cover band players concerning "originals" players are in response to the constant sneering. Typical example: "I'd rather die than be in a cover band."

Some posts from "I play originals" guys remind me of a lot of painters and other artists I've known over the years who expect to be treated like gods (or at least to be financially supported by girlfriends) despite being talentless hacks.

 

[BatBasstard]

It seems to me that many folks used do things the other way around. I spent many years in 'original' bands in the mid '80s and '90s, touting around UK pubs, clubs and venues, inviting record company A+R folks to gigs, hiring vans, doing mini-tours that just about broke even, playing show-cases and sending of demo tapes. Many times the stages were shared with the same bands or individuals all in the same position and chasing the same opportunities, and many times the "faces" showing up were the same. There were lots of "close but no cigar" moments but never any "big breaks" that stuck. But I loved every minute and have no (few?) regrets. So now it is pubs, bars and covers all the way. And purely for the pleasure of playing live to an appreciative audience that is already familiar with most of the music and for owners that will cover costs and keep us fed. I've done new arrangements for a few of the originals that I have rights to, but that was just before the pandemic and there has been no opportunity yet to try those out with an actual living audience.

So my original “CV” was somewhat truncated

I’m 57. In my early twenties I had a run at originals (as a singer rather than a bass player - I was “promoted” when our first singer left after a single rehearsal. I couldn’t sing & play bass at the same time and the guitarist “knew a guy”). We got to support a couple of name bands “on their way back down” but never got anywhere and it only lasted a year.
I quit because I had a spot of unplanned parenthood aged 24 prompting me to get “a proper career”. That was the last time I even touched an instrument for 16 years.
I worked hard & ended up as a (extremely unhappy) board director of the UK’s biggest ad agency.
Aged 40 I quit that and embarked on a second career as comedy performer.
That went really well too (National tours, three awards, loads of radio, tiny bit of telly) then the pandemic struck so I picked up the bass again, took formal lessons twice a week over Zoom from a pro and practiced about 4hrs a day. Yes, I’ve given myself shoulder issues but I got good, fast

During the gaps between lockdowns I joined three different covers bands and started giggling the second thing opened up again.

In March this year I formed an originals band with three lovely and really talented young people (average age 26 - I look very young for my age and they all thought I was late 30’s/early 40’s. Though my guitarist Googled me on day one and Wikipedia outed me ).
I’ve brought all the knowledge that 15 years of full time touring has taught me and poured it into this project.

By August, it was going so well & we’d become such good, supportive friends that I dropped all my other musical projects to focus completely on this.
We go into the studio to record our debut EP in 14 days time.

I haunt this forum looking for pearls of wisdom that will help my band

 

[hrodbert696]

The second group is in the minority here. And, alas, too many of them are young and wondering what the best bass for Metal is. But if you have an intelligent question about gear, or the biz, or whatever, there are folks here that might have something you might like to read about. Just be prepared for the haters, because the first group can't stand the second group and feels they _must_ throw shade on them whenever possible.

I've been on this forum 12 years now and am on the moderation staff, and I rarely to never see a cover band musician who "feels they must throw shade [on original musicians] whenever possible."

What I do see a lot of is cover band musicians who call out original musicians when they exhibit the arrogance and ignorance of failing to distinguish performance and composition, and who snobbishly post as though only composition counts as "creativity" or "artistry," and therefore think that they deserve to be treated as the superior members of the forum.

What I also see a lot of is what we've already seen a lot of on this thread; that while you can clearly categorize a gig or a music project as an original or cover project, you usually can't categorize musicians that way. Of course there are more gigs playing established music. But an awful lot of us have at least sometimes gotten involved in composition (or playing a bandmate's compositions rather than a published one), and only a few of us have insisted on turning our noses up at playing great music just because we didn't write it ourselves.

 

[BatBasstard]

……expect to be treated like gods (or at least to be financially supported by girlfriends) despite being talentless hacks.

I can’t decide whether to write “I feel seen” or “I feel personally attacked”

 

[el murdoque]

Lots of people here have done originals. Lots. The thing you're probably seeing is what happens when the originals thing wears thin, which unfortunately happens to a lot of us.

Playing original music has its rewards, without a doubt, but it's very, very hard to develop any sort of success with it and most players end up moving on after a while, after the money dries up and frustration sets in and bands break up.

Some of us just get out of music entirely after that, some seek new originals opportunities, and some decide they'd rather play something than nothing, but they need to stick closer to home and work a regular job, so that usually means you end up playing covers. In other words, doing covers is what a lot of people who start out doing originals wind up with once they give up on the dream.

In my world there's room for all of it and I don't really put one above the other as there are ways to enjoy doing both.

This is the unpleasant truth.
Building a following with originals (in many genres) requires youth. Once that is spent and you're not "there" yet, you need to figure out plan B.

 

[BatBasstard]

I've been on this forum 12 years now and am on the moderation staff, and I rarely to never see a cover band musician who "feels they must throw shade [on original musicians] whenever possible."

What I do see a lot of is cover band musicians who call out original musicians when they exhibit the arrogance and ignorance of failing to distinguish performance and composition, and who snobbishly post as though only composition counts as "creativity" or "artistry," and therefore think that they deserve to be treated as the superior members of the forum.

What I also see a lot of is what we've already seen a lot of on this thread; that while you can clearly categorize a gig or a music project as an original or cover project, you usually can't categorize musicians that way. Of course there are more gigs playing established music. But an awful lot of us have at least sometimes gotten involved in composition (or playing a bandmate's compositions rather than a published one), and only a few of us have insisted on turning our noses up at playing great music just because we didn't write it ourselves.

This is a great post.

Yes. I absolutely meant projects rather than musicians in my op.

In all honesty, perhaps naivete, I read everyone’s response through the prism of assuming that’s what they meant too

 

[BatBasstard]

I've been on this forum 12 years now and am on the moderation staff, and I rarely to never see a cover band musician who "feels they must throw shade [on original musicians] whenever possible."

What I do see a lot of is cover band musicians who call out original musicians when they exhibit the arrogance and ignorance of failing to distinguish performance and composition, and who snobbishly post as though only composition counts as "creativity" or "artistry," and therefore think that they deserve to be treated as the superior members of the forum.

What I also see a lot of is what we've already seen a lot of on this thread; that while you can clearly categorize a gig or a music project as an original or cover project, you usually can't categorize musicians that way. Of course there are more gigs playing established music. But an awful lot of us have at least sometimes gotten involved in composition (or playing a bandmate's compositions rather than a published one), and only a few of us have insisted on turning our noses up at playing great music just because we didn't write it ourselves.

As a moderator, please could you tell me how I could start a poll asking if the contributors to this forum are writing about a covers band, functions band or originals band projects (to use three broad categories) when they post?

 

[hrodbert696]

As a moderator, please could you tell me how I could start a poll asking if the contributors to this forum are writing about a covers band, functions band or originals band projects (to use three broad categories) when they post?

When you initially "Post New Thread," scroll down on the page that you write your first post in; there's an option there to add a poll to your thread. To my knowledge it's not possible to add a poll to a thread that you've already created, you have to do it when you first create it.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I haven't played in a sustained band doing originals in 2 decades, but am considering an offer now. The only cover project is just doing modern country (which also runs its course after a while. Add in the fact I don't like being the best musicians in the band).

 

[SteveCS]

As a moderator, please could you tell me how I could start a poll asking if the contributors to this forum are writing about a covers band, functions band or originals band projects (to use three broad categories) when they post?

The poll may not work as intended. Posters with experience in more than one area will always consider the context of the question/discussion and draw on relevant experience to frame the response. In this thread I can discuss from the context of "young idiot chasing the originals rock'n'roll dream" and "ageing hippy playing quality covers at the local boozer", but I have no experience of the "function" scene so I don't get involved in those discussions. So for most people the answer to the question will probably be "How I answer will depend on the question and who is asking".

 

[ArtechnikA]

Thank you
Would it be too much trouble to ask “how”?

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I took my shot at writing my own songs and leading my own band a dozen years ago. I had no idea what I was doing. Recorded an EP. Sales started slow and then kinda tapered off. I got tired of playing in front of five people for five dollars. Embarrassed, too, that I was asking three other people to work for peanuts, and told them so when I broke up the band.

These days, I'm your typical weekend warrior, playing classic rock covers. And I get enough thrill out of the crowd singing the chorus with me on "Bad Case of Loving You." I don't make enough to live on, of course, but I'm busy most weekends--this year, more than 65 gigs--and it's mostly a cash business. I have one friend, a woman who fronts a blues band and writes her own stuff--who is in her 50s and actually has some recordings on various blues charts--who is making it as an original act. If she ever loses a bass player, I'm gonna go for it.

 

[Rib 13]

I’m just trying to get a read on whether my impression of this forum’s make up is accurate.

I get the sense that the vast majority of post are about covers bands playing the bars/cover friendly festival circuit rather than people in originals bands trying to create a fanbase and playing the Live Music Venue, Small/Medium/Large Music Festival circuit (in the U.K. I guess that would look like Wildpaths/Latitude/Glastonbury for context of what I mean. I don’t know the American equivalent for Small or Medium but the equivalent for large would be like Burning Man or Lollapalooza).

Obviously both are equally valid I’m just trying to understand if the advice/experiences I’m reading here are substantially more from one camp than the other.

I don’t know if there’s a way of running a poll? (Mods?) but if not perhaps if people just sound off?

For my part, although I have played in covers bands in the past (punk covers, Mod covers, BritPop & Funk bands at various points) I’m now in an indierock/pop band writing, recording & releasing original material, playing small “Live Music Venues” & just starting to get booked into small regional festivals for next summer.

I think the biggest issue in the advice given on TB isnt the covers or originals perspective, but what styles and genres are the perspectives coming from. The problem is two-fold: (1) OP asking advice about something without too much information about what he/she is trying to do and (2) a lot of auto-responders assuming they are playing guitar-driven rock styles (including punk)...........Cant tell ya how many times a vague question of "What pedals should I get?" and folks immediately respond "Distortion is must-have!" without ascertaining if the guy is looking for an 80s Marcus Miller tone

 

[51PRI]

As a moderator, please could you tell me how I could start a poll asking if the contributors to this forum are writing about a covers band, functions band or originals band projects (to use three broad categories) when they post?

If you start a new thread with a poll I urge you to give plenty of options. Like I said above I play in one band that does covers AND originals and we do some shows that are almost all covers but some shows that are all originals.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I’m just trying to get a read on whether my impression of this forum’s make up is accurate.

I get the sense that the vast majority of post are about covers bands playing the bars/cover friendly festival circuit rather than people in originals bands trying to create a fanbase and playing the Live Music Venue, Small/Medium/Large Music Festival circuit (in the U.K. I guess that would look like Wildpaths/Latitude/Glastonbury for context of what I mean. I don’t know the American equivalent for Small or Medium but the equivalent for large would be like Burning Man or Lollapalooza).

Obviously both are equally valid I’m just trying to understand if the advice/experiences I’m reading here are substantially more from one camp than the other.

I don’t know if there’s a way of running a poll? (Mods?) but if not perhaps if people just sound off?

For my part, although I have played in covers bands in the past (punk covers, Mod covers, BritPop & Funk bands at various points) I’m now in an indierock/pop band writing, recording & releasing original material, playing small “Live Music Venues” & just starting to get booked into small regional festivals for next summer.

My general impression, correct or incorrect, is that original music is supported in your country more than in the states.

I was in London over the Millennial celebration, and around the corner from Oxbridge Street around Marble Arch, I stopped in a pub that had live music.

My conclusion was, if that was your ordinary pub band, we in the states were a tad behind the curve.

 

[BatBasstard]

I think the biggest issue in the advice given on TB isnt the covers or originals perspective, but what styles and genres are the perspectives coming from. The problem is two-fold: (1) OP asking advice about something without too much information about what he/she is trying to do and (2) a lot of auto-responders assuming they are playing guitar-driven rock styles (including punk)...........Cant tell ya how many times a vague question of "What pedals should I get?" and folks immediately respond "Distortion is must-have!" without ascertaining if the guy is looking for an 80s Marcus Miller tone

Yes. I feel this very strongly in other forums.

In Band Management though I think the nature of the project puts things in wildly different contexts and often with conflicting priorities