Covers vs Originals

[BatBasstard]

My general impression, correct or incorrect, is that original music is supported in your country more than in the states.

I was in London over the Millennial celebration, and around the corner from Oxbridge Street around Marble Arch, I stopped in a pub that had live music.

My conclusion was, if that was your ordinary pub band, we in the states were a tad behind the curve.

I have no concrete proof but I am led anecdotally to believe that you are correct.
Every British town will have at least one grassroots Live Music Venue alongside at least one “touring band” level venue and in the major cities you’ll usually have maybe 5 pubs hosting grassroots bands as well.
We also have a strong Student Union venue circuit

Covers bands in pubs tends to be predominantly suburbs and rural pubs. Though you will occasionally find them in major cities

 

[Rib 13]

In Band Management though I think the nature of the project puts things in wildly different contexts and often with conflicting priorities

Good point! I wasnt thinking about the Band Management forum when I posted and you are definitely correct that Originals/Covers could be greatly polarized POV

 

[digmeout]

This post is incredibly helpful.

and incredibly misleading IMHO.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I have no concrete proof but I am led anecdotally to believe that you are correct.
Every British town will have at least one grassroots Live Music Venue alongside at least one “touring band” level venue and in the major cities you’ll usually have maybe 5 pubs hosting grassroots bands as well.
We also have a strong Student Union venue circuit

Covers bands in pubs tends to be predominantly suburbs and rural pubs. Though you will occasionally find them in major cities

I don’t have any concrete proof either, as I had only on interaction in your country. (BTW, throughly enjoyed your country) but I have had a lot here in the states over the last 60 some years. My general experience is if you grab average Joe, and after a concert of an original music never heard before, and a cover band, if he had to pick one to see again, I’m pretty certain the cover band would be the choice. JMO.

 

[Tony In Philly]

I'm still looking for that "third way". I'll let you all know once I've found it. I promise!

 

[themickster]

I’m just trying to get a read on whether my impression of this forum’s make up is accurate.

I get the sense that the vast majority of post are about covers bands playing the bars/cover friendly festival circuit rather than people in originals bands trying to create a fanbase and playing the Live Music Venue, Small/Medium/Large Music Festival circuit (in the U.K. I guess that would look like Wildpaths/Latitude/Glastonbury for context of what I mean. I don’t know the American equivalent for Small or Medium but the equivalent for large would be like Burning Man or Lollapalooza).

Obviously both are equally valid I’m just trying to understand if the advice/experiences I’m reading here are substantially more from one camp than the other.

I don’t know if there’s a way of running a poll? (Mods?) but if not perhaps if people just sound off?

For my part, although I have played in covers bands in the past (punk covers, Mod covers, BritPop & Funk bands at various points) I’m now in an indierock/pop band writing, recording & releasing original material, playing small “Live Music Venues” & just starting to get booked into small regional festivals for next summer.

A cover band is liked because of what someone did'. An originals band is liked because of what they did for themselves. The covers they play wouldn't have been written, if not for original artists.

 

[BatBasstard]

and incredibly misleading IMHO.

More data has been posted since I said that.

I’m inclined to agree

 

[SLO Surfer]

That Brass band is awesome!

Thanks! It is one of, if not THE most fun bands I’ve ever gotten to play in. Not only is the music super fun, but the guys and girls are all great people to hang with, and I earn a minimum of $200/gig. Also, it’s a music theory/tech nerd’s (ie. me) dream; All members are great sight-readers so we only have about two rehearsals per year, when we add 10-15 songs to the list. All members on in-ears, all charts digital on iPads with programmed set lists (so you just keep turning page to page, song to song without stopping all show, no downtime between songs except pre-determined banter and set breaks), all songs on click track, pre-programmed light show linked to each songs’ click track via MIDI. Our band leader (trombone) even has his effects pedals switches and iPad page turns automated through the click track MIDI.

 

[BatBasstard]

A cover band is liked because of what someone did'. An originals band is liked because of what they did for themselves. The covers they play wouldn't have been written, if not for original artists.

I’m not sure how that is relevant to me trying to gain an understanding of whether most of the posts in this forum are made with reference to a Covers band project or an Originals band project

 

[LBS-bass]

I’m not sure how that is relevant to me trying to gain an understanding of whether most of the posts in this forum are made with reference to a Covers band project or an Originals band project

I think you'll find it's a mixed bag. For me I can say that my experiences in originals bands have greatly informed what I do and what I think about music in general, and some of that leaks out in how I approach doing covers. The way audiences react to the unfamiliar, for example, is an important thing to understand when doing both sorts of bands, but it informs planning for each in different ways. And so on.

On the converse, the way I approach doing original music is also well-informed. I still write it, I still produce it, but I don't perform it for a variety of reasons. There are circumstances where I might, but I haven't leaned into that sort of situation lately because it would be difficult to create and sustain to my own satisfaction.

What many people in both situations don't realize is that it's important to craft an experience for your audience that they will relate to in some way and cannot get elsewhere. If you can't write catchy songs that will grab an audience as though they've been heard before, you're going to have a more uphill battle getting audiences familiar with your music. And, in general, it's a different audience.

Covers tend to appeal to people who like to go out, whereas original music might be a serious destination event for people. In other words, the people who go out to see cover bands are going out frequently and looking for the most fun musical experience they can find, whereas the people who go to see original music might only go out once or twice a year to see their favorite bands because they liked what they heard on Spotify or Pandora. It's much harder to get those people out. On the other side of that coin, if you can get the attention of those people and they really, really love you, they'll follow you around relentlessly. And that's true for both covers and originals.

These things, of course, are true in my own experience with the kinds of bands I've been in, but may not be relatable in other genres or regions. My cover band makes a point to give people a unique experience that isn't gimmicky but is something they can't get elsewhere, and whenever we play we receive a ton of good feedback on those aspects because we've planned it that way. I probably would not have had the insight to plan things that way had I not experienced audiences from both sides of the live music world. All of that has helped me understand what audiences are motivated by.

 

[logdrum]

Your read is correct.
TalkBass (on the EB side) skews heavily to the classic rock cover band, weekend gigger, day job having, Fender P fan, don't stand out, do what the band leader says, no $ above the 5th fret types.

But, there are people here who not only play in original bands, but actually are song writers. There are people here who don't play P basses because the producer can't mix anything else, they _are_ the producer. There are people looking for new sounds rather than "fit in" sounds and there are people who are looking for ways to apply new technology to their creative expression.

The second group is in the minority here. And, alas, too many of them are young and wondering what the best bass for Metal is. But if you have an intelligent question about gear, or the biz, or whatever, there are folks here that might have something you might like to read about. Just be prepared for the haters, because the first group can't stand the second group and feels they _must_ throw shade on them whenever possible.

Thank you. Well put

 

[fdeck]

I'm still looking for that "third way". I'll let you all know once I've found it. I promise!

Jazz.

But actually, I was about to post about my experience being kind of a third way. The notion of "covers" isn't nearly as widespread in jazz. There are "standards," but bands are expected to put our own spin on them. And there might be multiple well-known recordings of the same tune in different styles. Often, a well known recording turns out to be a cover itself, or a jazz rendition of a popular song. Even tribute bands that are dedicated to one artist expect the musicians to improvise their solos.

It's actually more rare to hear bands play entirely original material. A rare treat. Creating 19-piece band arrangements of any quality is laborious and isn't learned overnight. I think that because a lot of players come up through the ranks as sidemen, they don't hone their writing skills. I've never written a tune. But the bands that people pay money to hear, as in buying tickets and putting it on their calendar, tend to be either all-original or are presenting novel arrangements of standards.

I think the complexity of playing "covers" simply reflects the complexity of recorded music. Outside of popular music, the challenge is making a recording sound as good as a live performance. Naturally, music that starts in the studio will be harder to reproduce on stage.

There's a fourth way and a fifth way too. I think music is so fragmented, that even the "most popular" genre or business model only represents a small fraction of the entire scene. What makes music vibrant is variety. There are plenty of musicians who have simply never faced the covers-vs-originals dilemma.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I’m not sure how that is relevant to me trying to gain an understanding of whether most of the posts in this forum are made with reference to a Covers band project or an Originals band project

That's all there is though. Opinions stated here, either in other flow of events, or in direct reply.

Looking for a wide consensus is viable, but on the general principle of not being able to please all people all the time, it may be better to look at the flow of time itself. In that detail, the post you answered says something important: without the originals, there would be no covers.

Reinvention may be best done with youthful energy, but youth has no monopoly on it. Youth tends to create things that become 'dated'. If it gets famous, it goes on to please those lookign for nostalgia.

So many things can be said about the process, I just gave an obvious example, but the thing that matters to me is that there need be no forced boundary between 'original' and 'cover'. The best covers usually do something very new and original with the song they are based on.

If older people are trying to establish new material, covers may be useful to prove that you can play something like the material you want to interest people in. It will make people more receptive, and save a lot of time. It's when 'new' is dropped on people with no context that eyes begin to glaze over.

 

[logdrum]

Cover bands will be easier to establish a metric of success in most locations in the US.

San Diego for example always supported singer song writer types so we see a lot of talent from there.

As mostly jazz, improvisational , new music type, I am a fringe statistic. I did play for a singer song writer who did 75% originals and re-voiced, re-arranged all the covers she did. Fun project.

 

[LBS-bass]

In that detail, the post you answered says something important: without the originals, there would be no covers.

I'd like also state something that I think we often forget. There was a time when most originals that you would hear on the radio used to be "covers" in the sense that the way music was produced was that songwriters would craft a song that publishers would shop around to artists and managers in the form of either sheet music or, later, recorded demos.

In those days, almost everything you heard on the radio was written by someone else and the demo versions were then fleshed-out by those artists and produced and printed for labels.

The line between covers and originals is pretty weak in many cases. What we don't think so much about is the different ways creativity and interpretation comes into play when crafting and producing music of any sort, regardless of who wrote it. Arrangement is a big piece of what we appreciate when we listen to music, and the same song can sound radically different in different hands. This is much more readily evident in jazz, but it's not exclusive to that.

What does this have to do with the OP? Not sure except to suggest that looking for clear lines of demarcation in some cases might miss important things to consider.

 

[EdO.]

I think you'll find it's a mixed bag. For me I can say that my experiences in originals bands have greatly informed what I do and what I think about music in general, and some of that leaks out in how I approach doing covers. The way audiences react to the unfamiliar, for example, is an important thing to understand when doing both sorts of bands, but it informs planning for each in different ways. And so on.

On the converse, the way I approach doing original music is also well-informed. I still write it, I still produce it, but I don't perform it for a variety of reasons. There are circumstances where I might, but I haven't leaned into that sort of situation lately because it would be difficult to create and sustain to my own satisfaction.

What many people in both situations don't realize is that it's important to craft an experience for your audience that they will relate to in some way and cannot get elsewhere. If you can't write catchy songs that will grab an audience as though they've been heard before, you're going to have a more uphill battle getting audiences familiar with your music. And, in general, it's a different audience.

Covers tend to appeal to people who like to go out, whereas original music might be a serious destination event for people. In other words, the people who go out to see cover bands are going out frequently and looking for the most fun musical experience they can find, whereas the people who go to see original music might only go out once or twice a year to see their favorite bands because they liked what they heard on Spotify or Pandora. It's much harder to get those people out. On the other side of that coin, if you can get the attention of those people and they really, really love you, they'll follow you around relentlessly. And that's true for both covers and originals.

These things, of course, are true in my own experience with the kinds of bands I've been in, but may not be relatable in other genres or regions. My cover band makes a point to give people a unique experience that isn't gimmicky but is something they can't get elsewhere, and whenever we play we receive a ton of good feedback on those aspects because we've planned it that way. I probably would not have had the insight to plan things that way had I not experienced audiences from both sides of the live music world. All of that has helped me understand what audiences are motivated by.

Probably the best description/definition of the counterpoint between original and cover bands I've seen posted in some time. Well written and on point IMO.

...covers may be useful to prove that you can play something like the material you want to interest people in. It will make people more receptive, and save a lot of time. It's when 'new' is dropped on people with no context that eyes begin to glaze over.

Exactly. IME you can more easily open casual listeners minds/ears to hearing some of your own material once you've proven to them that you can actually play at a reasonably competent level. And different parts of the country/planet have scenes that are more open to original music so it's more acceptable in some places than others but generally speaking if you want someone to open their mind to your original music you have to prove first that you're worth being listened to.

The hard cold reality, like it or not, is that IF you want to play out consistently, establish your reputation as a competent musician, and make any money doing it cover bands are the route most likely to take you there. Originals tend to be more of a side project/record-it-at-home/put it out on YouTube and see if you can create a following thing. IF it takes off you have an opportunity to do something cool and grow it. Doing that in pubs/bars etc (again depending on where you are geographically) seems to be mostly an exercise in frustration.

Agreed that SOMEONE is creating new music and writing the music that cover bands will eventually be covering in the bars etc. Doing it via YouTube/social media etc IMO is todays most viable way of getting to that point career wise. Chances of "being discovered" playing in a pub/bar are pretty much zero. If I were a working songwriter trying to make a go of it I'd be putting my time and energy into social media not the bar circuit.

 

[DWBass]

Let's not go down this rabbit hole or this thread will surely get shut down. There are all sorts of bass players on this site. A LOT of them play originals and won't go anywhere near covers. Other's, like me, are certified cover band bass players and proud of it. I have played in an originals band before. It's great for your creativity.

 

[IanStephenson]

Every British town will have at least one grassroots Live Music Venue alongside at least one “touring band” level venue and in the major cities you’ll usually have maybe 5 pubs hosting grassroots bands as well.
We also have a strong Student Union venue circuit

Don't get too excited. I'm in a large UK town, with a fair student population. yes there are multiple "grassroots Live Music Venues". A new one opened only a few months ago... it is literally a hole in the ground. The business model (as with most of these venues), is to put as many bands on as possible per evening, so each band brings all their friends who all pay a very substantial cover charge to see their friends' band then leave. Having spoken to friends who have played there, they weren't promised any payment, (though they might have got something at the end) so that money went to the owner - a well known "supporter of live music" in the area. The sound is terrible, and there's no heating or ventilation. Place is filthy. Drinks are whatever cans the owner bought at the supermarket up the street (and marked up 10x). A glass of water (just from tap - not bottled) costs more than a beer in the nice clean pub next door.

British "grassroots Live Music Venues" business model is to make money from bands, not from audiences. Most aren't as bad as this place, but across the road is a regular pub that is pleasant (if unexciting) has good/cheep beer and food, puts bands cover bands on regularly and pays them well (from the bar take - no cover charge).

If I sound negative, then its directed towards the venues, and the business model. All bands (original or covers or "other") deserve better than "grassroots live music venues".

 

[legalbass]

I've played bass in covers bands.

It was fun.

I've played bass in originals bands.

It was also fun.

Never made a penny. Loved every minute of both.

I guess it really helps, that I've been *very* blessed to only share a band with people who were musically skilled and also reasonable human beings, i.e. no major personality or emotional faults or flaws.

These days, I'm far more interested in just jamming with a small group of the aforesaid friends in a private setting than making any attempt to play "gigs" (God, I just do hate that word.)

My hat's off to those still strongly dedicated to playing live music, however.

If you're going to do a covers band, however, why not spice it up? Do some arrangements, throw in some surprises versus just playing note-for-note, straight-off-the-record?

 

[fdeck]

I'd like also state something that I think we often forget. There was a time when most originals that you would hear on the radio used to be "covers" in the sense that the way music was produced was that songwriters would craft a song that publishers would shop around to artists and managers in the form of either sheet music or, later, recorded demos.

Often at jazz combo gigs someone will make a request like: "Can you play something by Sinatra?"

Well, Sinatra didn't write any of his own tunes. The band needs to have a couple tunes in reserve, that Sinatra made a popular recording of.

And writing those tunes was a good profession in its own right. I know a couple of people who do that today. They write tune after tune, that get shopped around by publishers. One of them got his tune used as the jingle for a major brand, and he made enough money to buy a modest house.