Cows eating grass.

[michael_atw]

Shadow-boxing has become all the rage in some circles...

Same as it ever was. Rebel like it's 1789. Washington body-slammed those Pennsylvanians. "You're gonna tax me? Tyranny!"

 

[Turock]

There is an empty lot near my house. I park my car there. After I started, my neighbors start parking there too. The owner steps up and says there is no problem with parking there, but it's not our property and we need to cough up some maintenance money if we want to continue parking there. The neighbors pay. I initially pay, but then decide against it. I continue to park there for many, many years. Eventually the owner tells me I have to move my car or else it will be towed. I tell him to shove it. A tow truck shows up to move my car. That car is my property, how dare they touch what is not theirs! I have a right to park there. I have parked there for years! I didn't pay when I started parking there. Why should I pay now?!

It's more like parking your car on your own land for a few decades, and then an an unconstitutional entity invents rules to force you off your land.

 

[deeptubes]

It's more like parking your car on your own land for a few decades, and then an an unconstitutional entity invents rules to force you off your land.

So, you're saying the cattle were grazing on his land? Even he admits they were grazing federal land.

 

[Turock]

So, you're saying the cattle were grazing on his land? Even he admits they were grazing federal land.

Who do you think owns federal land?

 

[deeptubes]

Who do you think owns federal land?

Federal land is not public land. For example, try walking onto any Army base claiming that it's public land and your are entitled to access it.

Your argument is the same as telling a police officer, "I pay your salary. You work for me."

 

[Turock]

Federal land is not public land. For example, try walking onto any Army base claiming that it's public land and your are entitled to access it.

Your argument is the same as telling a police officer, "I pay your salary. You work for me."

Who do you think a police officer works for?

I didn't say it was public land; however, federal land is owned by we the people.
Also, Bundy owns the water rights and foraging rights, and his family has worked and made improvements to that land for over a hundred years.

 

[deeptubes]

Who do you think a police officer works for?

Perfect! I could not a scripted a better response.

I didn't say it was public land; however, federal land is owned by we the people.

Have you tried the Army base test yet?

Also, Bundy owns the water rights and foraging rights, and his family has worked and made improvements to that land for over a hundred years.

Immaterial. It's still not his property. It is a privilege, not an entitlement. Don't want to pay for the privilege? Then graze your own land.

 

[Turock]

Perfect! I could not a scripted a better response.

I agree, it was the perfect response, which you failed to answer. Who do think a police officer works for?

Have you tried the Army base test yet?

I have been on several Army and Marine bases.

Immaterial. It's still not his property. It is a privilege, not an entitlement. Don't want to pay for the privilege? Then graze your own land.

He is grazing his own land. Who's land do you think it is?

I don't really care if you answer those questions. Obviously, you've been indoctrinated well, and will easily give up your freedoms if instructed.

 

[deeptubes]

I agree, it was the perfect response, which you failed to answer. Who do think a police officer works for?

Obviously they work for me! I pay their salaries!!!

I have been on several Army and Marine bases.

As have I, and I'm sure we both followed Federal govt protocol. Have you tried demanding access to "your property" while carrying an AR-15?

He is grazing his own land. Who's land do you think it is?

Not his. Does he have any documents stating that the land he was grazing is his?

I don't really care if you answer those questions. Obviously, you've been indoctrinated well, and will easily give up your freedoms if instructed.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Turock, when are you moving into the White House? It's Federally owned which means every citizen owns it, right? Therefore, you have a right to live there. I'll help you pack... Ok, all done.

 

[Metalbasspro]

Reports are saying the Federal Stand down was a show while they re assess, compile intel on the resistance and are at this movement moving in more gear and federal agents. I did not think the issue was closed but I thought they would try something new in a few weeks. Looks like more like a few days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer1YidkfPY

 

[Metalbasspro]

This guy basically says the standoff was a set up that the Militias failed to take the bait on. I think he's right. They wanted the militias to fire on the BLM sacrificial lambs so they could do what they wanted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilDfAqDNUe4&feature=youtu.be

 

[pacojas]

thanks for the updates, Metal.

 

[DerHoggz]

Delusional

 

[Tennesseemick]

Set up a mining or timber company in the Smokies and see how many people support you.

 

[Metalbasspro]

Delusional

"Order from Chaos" is a real and practiced concept. It's not delusional, it is used and has been used throughout history. If you don't know anything about history and politics then it would seem crazy to you or anyone.

I was thinking about the 1 million dollar figure the BLM threw out that the rancher owes over the last 20 years. If you divide that up it's like an insane amount to let your cows eat some wild grown grasses per year. Obviously they tacked on late fees and missed payment fees and interest.

And there is where the BLM needs to compromise and get reasonable. People are calling this rancher a "free Loader". Well I'd say the government and BLM are full of free loaders to a far bigger degree then this rancher. I don't even think I need to get into why.

 

[Metalbasspro]

While I did not know what the real story was behind this, I and others had a gut feeling something more was going on with the situation.

This guy seems to have uncovered it and debunked some of the speculation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFiosLqjoQQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[mellowinman]

Did you read this part?

These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Somewhere down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be used to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.

My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.

So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the endangered species card. You've already heard about the desert tortoise.

The bolded part is where they admit they stopped paying the fees.

 

[Turock]

The bolded part is where they admit they stopped paying the fees.

Update to a Fox News story:
"Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his herd’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?"

 

[Ironbar]

I cannot fully comment on this thread topic without receiving a third strike, but suffice to say from some the responses on this thread, those of you that think this rancher is in the wrong have been duped.

 

[GregC]

Update to a Fox News story:
"Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his herd’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights?"

Link? This reads like no actual news story I've ever read. No sources, vague terms like "much later" instead of actual dates and plenty of editorializing. I'm pretty sure even Fox has better reporting standards than this. Sounds like you C&P'd an editorial--or a quote from the story without telling us who said it.