Crafting bass lines by ear

[Michael Stanley 2112]

The only way I've ever written bass lines is more by feel, but I guess you can call it "by ear".

I like to get the band together, have the other players throw their ideas at me and just "let 'er rip".

Do I use walking bass lines and music knowledge? Of course I do, but it has to feel right for me.

 

[mambo4]

do people consciously use these rules in the actual process of creating a bass line?

generally no.

Wondering about other people's approach to this.

It's knowing the sound you want and how to execute it.
You may or may not be able to describe the sound with theory terminology.

In my view, There are 4 components to "knowing" a musical theory concept:

1. Know the sound
2. Know the execution
3. Know the terms
4. Know the notation

Skilled players who "don't know theory" actually are well versed in 1 & 2.
They know it, they just can't name or notate it.
For me all 4 aspects serve to fix a concept in my mind, each feeding into and reinforcing the other.

I worry that playing by ear is being lazy, much as I enjoy it.

Playing by ear is the goal, man. Don't sweat it.
The only limitation is the vocabulary you have built through listening , practice, and transcribing.
The only practical drawbacks to not "using theory" are

• a speed bump in communication with others.
• possibly missing some options implied by theory

I always drop this Anthony Wellington clip in these discussion, as an example of someone who has command of all 4 components and how to apply them:

 

[mambo4]

How to create a bass line by ear:

1. Sing it

2. Record your singing

3. Figure out how to play it

I think it is worth emphasizing that this is a practice routine, not a distant goal.
Figuring out how to play what you sang is, at first, as challenging as learning to execute a new scale or arpeggio.
Over time practice will make it easier and faster

Jazz guitar great Barney Kessel has an excellent lesson on playing what you hear



A key point is: Barney encourages you to improvise over played chord progressions
imagining ideas in a vacuum has less application
So a "chord progression app" like band in a box, chordbot, iRealPro;
or Abersold records, or just one of your Jazz albums may come in handy

 

[Ric Vice]

I understand the theory behind walking bass lines (scales, arpeggios, approach notes). But do people consciously use these rules in the actual process of creating a bass line?

If I'm following a chord progression and playing the root note on the one (I realize that's not always the case), I feel like I have an easier time making my way to the next root note by ear/imagination. I have a fairly good ear but have a lot of trouble going from rule to note quickly enough. I feel like this is a product of how my brain functions.

Wondering about other people's approach to this. I worry that playing by ear is being lazy, much as I enjoy it.

Michael

Arpeggios, Modes and the like are vocabulary, so you can incorporate them into your playing for sure. Even though I am a "trained musician" I ascribe to the "garage band" method of ear training, learn tunes by ear and their melodies
by heart. Your soloing will grow out of that practice. In truth everyone who puts their hands to the instrument is "playing by ear" whether they are reading notes or not. Just my take.

 

[sheesh]

I love where Anthony Wellington says: (I think it's 5:08)
"It's all about shortening your reaction time"
And I love how he demonstrates playing "out of key"
Thanks for posting this.

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

I always look at theory as guidelines. It's just like driving. At first your all worried about how to start the car, you cautiously put the car in reverse and, then drive making sure you follow each rule but overtime you forget about the rules and just drive. Just think about it... after years of driving, you never really think about starting the car, stopping or turning the signal light on or changing a lane... you just subconsciously do it.

This is how it should be with music theory. And the more you do it, the more better you get at it. I know many guys who learned music theory and how to read and they can do that well but they never become great musicians because they never took the time to make training their ear an exercise while practicing.

They only rely on what they can read so if it isn't written then they can't make music. Music should always first be played from the heart and soul and never the mind (theory). Music relates to us as more a feeling than thought.

I've had the greatest solos when I spontaneously played but couldn't figure out for the life in me what I played afterwards. Lol

You don't need to know theory to be a good musician but you do need to have a good ear to be one. The theory just gives you the guidelines on what scale, chord or arpeggios you can possibly play over a chord. You can learn how to be a good driver without the knowledge of guidelines but without the guidelines you may get into an accident. I first learned to play bass by ear and then 15 years later I added the theory.

If you only add the theory and never train your ear you will limit yourself to what making music is all about. Playing with your own style and flavor. Unless requested, I never play the exact bassline on any cover. I credit my ear 80% for my talents and the theory 20%. Some of the theory that I learned I already knew and was playing. I would play it at the right time but never really knew that the 2nd and 3rd or 6th chord was minor and that I was playing a minor lick or scale etc... then you have inverted chords etc... theory just opens you up to a lot more music possibilities but if you never have a ear to apply those scales musically then it's all for nothing.

It is possible to train your ears to hear the 1 2 3 or whatever chord in music and know a entire song before you even practice. how?? Pay attention to the sound of the chords and how the bass note sounds over it when you practice.

If you do this, then over time, you will begin to hear the same chords in songs over the radio and you will know exactly what is being played before you even pick the bass up. "Oh thats song is 1,5,6,4. Or 6,4,1,5" etc... You should challenge yourself to pick out the chords in music as your driving. This is actually practicing without an instrument in your hands. Again, developing your ear IMHO is the single most important thing you could do as an musician.

 

[vickerekes]

"Wondering about other people's approach to this. I worry that playing by ear is being lazy, much as I enjoy it."

This covers a bit more than you're asking, but is the best summary I've seen (theory/comp major in college, bass player since the 70's):

Chick Corea's "Cheap but Good Advice"

1. Play only what you hear.
2. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
3. Don’t let your fingers and limbs wander — place them intentionally.
4. Don’t improvise on endlessly — play something with intention, develop it or not, but then end off, take a break.
5. Leave space — create space — intentionally create places where you don’t play.
6. Make your sound blend. Listen to your sound and adjust it to the rest of the band and the room.
7. If you play more than one instrument at a time — like a drum kit or multiple keyboards — make sure that they are balanced with one another.
8. Don’t make any of your music mechanically or just through patterns of habit. Create each sound, phrase, and piece with choice — deliberately.
9. Guide your choice of what to play by what you like-not by what someone else will think.
10. Use contrast and balance the elements: high/low, fast/slow, loud/soft, tense/relaxed, dense/sparse.
11. Play to make the other musicians sound good. Play things that will make the overall music sound good.
12. Play with a relaxed body. Always release whatever tension you create.
13. Create space — begin, develop, and end phrases with intention.
14. Never beat or pound your instrument — play it easily and gracefully.
15. Create space — then place something in it.
16. Use mimicry sparsely — mostly create phrases that contrast with and develop the phrases of the other players.

 

[Bass Motifs]

I always look at theory as guidelines. It's just like driving. At first your all worried about how to start the car, you cautiously put the car in reverse and, then drive making sure you follow each rule but overtime you forget about the rules and just drive. Just think about it... after years of driving, you never really think about starting the car, stopping or turning the signal light on or changing a lane... you just subconsciously do it.

This is how it should be with music theory. And the more you do it, the more better you get at it. I know many guys who learned music theory and how to read and they can do that well but they never become great musicians because they never took the time to make training their ear an exercise while practicing.

They only rely on what they can read so if it isn't written then they can't make music. Music should always first be played from the heart and soul and never the mind (theory). Music relates to us as more a feeling than thought.

I've had the greatest solos when I spontaneously played but couldn't figure out for the life in me what I played afterwards. Lol

You don't need to know theory to be a good musician but you do need to have a good ear to be one. The theory just gives you the guidelines on what scale, chord or arpeggios you can possibly play over a chord. You can learn how to be a good driver without the knowledge of guidelines but without the guidelines you may get into an accident. I first learned to play bass by ear and then 15 years later I added the theory.

If you only add the theory and never train your ear you will limit yourself to what making music is all about. Playing with your own style and flavor. Unless requested, I never play the exact bassline on any cover. I credit my ear 80% for my talents and the theory 20%. Some of the theory that I learned I already knew and was playing. I would play it at the right time but never really knew that the 2nd and 3rd or 6th chord was minor and that I was playing a minor lick or scale etc... then you have inverted chords etc... theory just opens you up to a lot more music possibilities but if you never have a ear to apply those scales musically then it's all for nothing.

It is possible to train your ears to hear the 1 2 3 or whatever chord in music and know a entire song before you even practice. how?? Pay attention to the sound of the chords and how the bass note sounds over it when you practice.

If you do this, then over time, you will begin to hear the same chords in songs over the radio and you will know exactly what is being played before you even pick the bass up. "Oh thats song is 1,5,6,4. Or 6,4,1,5" etc... You should challenge yourself to pick out the chords in music as your driving. This is actually practicing without an instrument in your hands. Again, developing your ear IMHO is the single most important thing you could do as an musician.

Great post!

Yes to theory cos it opens more doors, but absolutely yes to developing your ear. There are blessed ones amongst us who have uber-ears, my better half being one of them, but for the rest of us it's constant work.

I always try to get a song down just in my head from listening, and then go the bass or piano to check. It's a game. I also try to do it out of earshot of my other half in case she tries to rescue me

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Great post!

Yes to theory cos it opens more doors, but absolutely yes to developing your ear. There are blessed ones amongst us who have uber-ears, my better half being one of them, but for the rest of us it's constant work.

I always try to get a song down just in my head from listening, and then go the bass or piano to check. It's a game. I also try to do it out of earshot of my other half in case she tries to rescue me

Thank you! I think the younger you start the easier it is. My daughter (14 yrs old) is like a sponge and she can master a scale in a 1 day and be ready for more. The other day we were in the car driving and she says... "Dad that song has the same chords and notes that you first taught me," and she was right. I was just amazed. Her ears for music have developed already. The more you do it, even if it's you getting it wrong, the more you're learning what's right. It still all equals practicing and developing (which is ongoing) your ears.

 

[Bass Motifs]

Yep, two of ours are little music sponges. Trying to get them into family band in that narrow window where competency hasn't caught up with not wanting to be seen/heard with dad

To this point: No2 is off to drum lessons because I dont know anything about that, and I had to explain to no3 yesterday that he should stick with piano lessons another year for the musical knowledge and maybe do guitar lessons after that. With his ear, I strongly suspect copping licks from songs and YT will race ahead anything he learns from a guitar teacher, judging on his progress so far. He made me smile big time yesterday waking up to Gunners, AC/DC and Bon Jovi. I think I shed a tear... No2 hears beats and plays them, or comes up with cool stuff. Delicate balance of getting some technique but not crushing the individual creativity.

Sorry for hijack, I'll start another thread on this.

PS When I told junior he had a good ear, he asked which one

 

[Bob_Ross]

chord symbols became archetypes. Over the years I have built up a library of automated playing processes and knowledge. When I see a chord symbol it opens up a knowledge-base so I can choose an automate response or thought process. ... My ears are always part of the process.

:mic drop:

^^^that idea is worth its weight in gold. Won't be taught in any college music program either.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I understand the theory behind walking bass lines (scales, arpeggios, approach notes). But do people consciously use these rules in the actual process of creating a bass line?

With years of playing bass-lines, one would develop, kind of, automated (subconscious, "out-of-the-box") bass-line templates for this/that rhythm pattern, for this/that (similar) chord progression, etc...
Let's say, you hear a bossa-nova rhythm pattern or a country music rhythm pattern, and your mind immediately produces a (more or less) generic bass-line rhythmic template.
A chord progression (recognizable by your mind) allows you to (immediately) add embellishments, fills, etc...
In addition, a knowledgeable bass player has already a good understanding about the structure/form of the song.
And that knowledge of the song's form must be heard in your bass-lines.
The song's structure/form knowledge is a very good helper while developing (composing) bass-lines within one song.

But...
After years of crafting/creating/playing bass-lines, you start noticing that your (created) bass-line/s is/are repeating itself, and you start working on creating "unusual, unpredictable, fresh" bass-lines.
Sometimes, it happens suddenly - "I don't know what caused it,"
sometimes, it happens by "physically" rearranging the notes, removing some of them "over here" and adding them "over there."
Those "new kind" of bass-lines don't need to be complex or technically-challenging ones.
No, they are just (slightly) different than your mind would create.

Here is a "new kind" bass line that my mind would not automatically produce.
Idesia - Back and Forth.
Bass - Daniel Oldham




Here is a "filtered and EQ-ed version with an added metronome (for better hearing affect) of the same track, but the bass-line is in the aural "front" and dubbed (an octave higher.)
But, even "new kind" of bass lines are knowledgeable of the song's form!

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...0/?temp_hash=5d51d64d0418d504bc635e2cb1123898

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Let's say, the following bass-line is an example that my mind would/could produce - Nothing new.

It shows a strong understanding of the song's form, it has a some "traditional" embellishment tools like, glissandi, bass fills at the ends of cadences, even double-stops closer to the end, etc...
The song is in Polish but the rhythmic pattern is UNIVERSAL.
Rosalie., Chloe Martini - No cóż

Bass - Adam Świerczyński



And here is the same track only with the bass "in the front" and with an added "octave bass" line.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=73a82cc142d6c4cdee64942cd71d4e02

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Here is an example of a well-crafted and solidly-structured but "busy" bass-line.
It's easy to see/hear the song's form - each song's section has a clearly defined bass-line "template."

Is this original bass-line too saturated?

(The bass player is the band's leader, composer, etc.; therefore, "it's all good.")

Bass - VBND



Here is the "bass-highlighted" version of the same.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...5/?temp_hash=78bad1140979027c214c73c2a682c118

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The following song has a very structured and properly-developed bass-line for a well-known song,
"Georgia on my mind."
The bass-line clearly pronounces the song's sections and shows elements of "developing" the bass-line.

It's a standard song/standard blues rhythmic pattern - nothing new of the bass-line but it's a very attractive one.



And here is the same song for the bass players for their "easy listening."

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=78bad1140979027c214c73c2a682c118

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Another example of a well-structured (it's all about the song's form) bass-line.
One could wonder if the bass-line is the first melody and the vocal is the second melody.

LU KALA - Who's Gonna.



Here is the same track but with the bass-line in the front for our "easy listening."

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...6/?temp_hash=62daa579df9b21414b32cf7a37daefc0

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I love Brazilian music.
Here is a simple pop song from Brazil.

Saulo - Preta

A very playful bass-line.
Try to listen and make a (mental) template of the bass-line, its embellishments, its development, etc...
Bass - Baixo - Leo Pinheiro





Here is our (for the bass players) version of the same song.
It's a live performance, and,my regret, the bass had some "bass effects - compressor, limiter, etc..." that added some "unnecessary" distortion for our aural listening experience.


https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...8/?temp_hash=62daa579df9b21414b32cf7a37daefc0

 

[mjnyc]

Wow, these are all great examples, as is your explanation. Many thanks.

One question I have, which I can't quite figure out without the chord charts for the songs, is: How often is the bassist playing the root on the one (or on every chord change).

If, as I suspect, it is very often, then it makes understanding/crafting bass lines a bit more straightforward for me. Play the root and then, for a more standard approach use chord tones and chromatic approaches. For a more "interesting" bass line choose some well-chosen notes outside these. But playing the root on the one gives me a structure to work with. I understand of course that this is not always the case.

Thanks again,

Michael

 

[Whousedtoplay]

One question I have, which I can't quite figure out without the chord charts for the songs, is: How often is the bassist playing the root on the one (or on every chord change).

Many decades ago (yes, I'm old), I've had the same question.
I was "fresh" from a 4-year music school, "equipped" with enough knowledge of Functional Harmony in Classical Music, and I've tried to implement some "interesting" a la baroque-type bass lines in Pop, Rock music.
And I have failed! And I've learned it immediately.

N.B. For Jazz music discussions please refer to a different forum, the Double Bass forum!

One of the most important aspect in order to discern the level of a beginner/amateur bass player is that question, "Do I need to play the root on Beat 1 and on every chord change?"

N.B. Yes, one could find some exceptions, but it's rare!

After many years of playing the bass, analyzing and transcribing numerous bass-lines in numerous music styles - Country, Pop, Disco, Rock, Soul, R&B, etc..., I've learned that playing the root on Beat 1 (or with a new chord change) does not make you a failed bass player or a superb bass player.
Playing the root on Beat 1 does not make you a bad or a mediocre, or a superb bass player.
We do not evaluate a/any bass-line based on whether the bass player plays the root on Beat1 (or with a chord change.)
In short.
I have no quarrel with playing the root on Beat 1 - We are not talking about JAZZ music!

 

[mjnyc]

This is what I thought and was hoping to hear.
I understand that with jazz it's a whole different thing.

Many thanks again.

Michael