Cross-Over (Crossover or Splitter) pedals

[BurningSkies]

Very interesting topic ! For effect pedals, I've learned to appreciate an X-over switch more than a blend knob (both my chorus pedals have that feature, the MXR Stereo Chorus and the EHX Bass Clone), but this type of pedal takes it a few step further.

You always learn something new on TB

I have an Iron Ether Nimbus & Polytope, they each have pass-filters that allow you to 'roll up' the signal and only put the effect on the upper portion. The Strymon Timeline does have a similar setting in it. But if you're working with a lot of more traditional pedals, you may not have this option. Also if you're feeding something like an envelope, where it's both EQ and dynamic sensitive, having control over how low the signal you're feeding it goes is great.

I also really love having control over how you set the levels on the top and bottom. I first find 'unity' across both hp and lp, then once I start applying effects, I can adjust the HP side of things to be more present in the mix while keeping my LP stuff and the feel of the lows the same as my clean bypassed tone.

And while I've gone to using a multi-loop switcher, before I had it I really liked the convenience of being able to use the crossover as a loop on/off switch. Before the song, I could choose the pedals I wanted to layer, then I could just toggle on/off with one switch rather than 2 or 3 effects at once.

Here's a move...I have a volume swell out front of the crossover, so when I use it I get swell across my clean deep lows and also swell on the the fuzz/envelope above, then an expression on the envelope to sweep that up and down.

Part of my desire to move to a 'cleaner' higher fidelity HP loop was to be able to use delay in my loop and have it sound organically similar to my clean tone rather than have it sound washed out which is what the D/V was doing with some processing in the HP loop you can't get rid of.

 

[monsterthompson]

Bored Brain Transmutron is where I ended up.
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Liked the Divaracator concept but not the actual pedal. Looked at a few others. The Pigtronix Keymaster got my attention but was more of a loop blender. The Transmutron does both crossover and loop blending, with a 3-way selectable cutoff frequency curve. It also has a “fallout” notch filtering between two loops, which is a bit uncommon, but cool.

The Transmutron also aims at the Euro Rack crowd. The crossover can be CV modulated, and the effects loops can run Euro level effects.

There’s an out for the combined signal or you can split each out.

At high gain settings you can get it to him a bit, but if you’re conscious of about your gain staging, it runs very quietly. I’ve only had this issue once, and managed to avoid it after that.

 

[BurningSkies]

Bored Brain Transmutron is where I ended up.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Liked the Divaracator concept but not the actual pedal. Looked at a few others. The Pigtronix Keymaster got my attention but was more of a loop blender. The Transmutron does both crossover and loop blending, with a 3-way selectable cutoff frequency curve. It also has a “fallout” notch filtering between two loops, which is a bit uncommon, but cool.

The Transmutron also aims at the Euro Rack crowd. The crossover can be CV modulated, and the effects loops can run Euro level effects.

There’s an out for the combined signal or you can split each out.

At high gain settings you can get it to him a bit, but if you’re conscious of about your gain staging, it runs very quietly. I’ve only had this issue once, and managed to avoid it after that.

Have you played with the expression/CV on the X/O point? I can see maybe applying it to a fuzz where you can get it to 'clean up' down low or get really deep and weighty. I tend to find the place where it works best then leave it but depending on the effect a sweep could be very cool.

Tyler builds a really nice pedal, but I can't help but feel like there's a couple tweaks on the Divaricator that would make it better...like an 'exciter bypass' to take that out of the circuit altogether.

 

[monsterthompson]

Have you played with the expression/CV on the X/O point? I can see maybe applying it to a fuzz where you can get it to 'clean up' down low or get really deep and weighty. I tend to find the place where it works best then leave it but depending on the effect a sweep could be very cool.

Tyler builds a really nice pedal, but I can't help but feel like there's a couple tweaks on the Divaricator that would make it better...like an 'exciter bypass' to take that out of the circuit altogether.

I have tried modulating the crossover. I ran an Ableton Push II controller into a synth via MIDI, and set the touch strip in the Push to mod-wheel function. The synth converted the midi to CV, which could modulate that point. I found the CV didn’t move the point far enough to make it move from 100% left to 100% right, but it did move it. The expression pedal will move it 100%.

I used it with two different delay settings on the Empress Echo, with one setting in each loop (Empress lets you run two engines L/R in parallel). Starting with the crossover 100% on the left, you get one delay sound, but as you sweep the expression pedal, the highs started passing through the second delay setting and behaving differently. It’s a good effect.

 

[Wasnex]

Alas, VFE hung it up not long ago. Brimstone has a crossed over distortion, but it lacks independent outputs, so you can't use the sub-loops for other effects.

Most of the pedals shown will allow you to run two different signals to different amps, it's a matter if you return the HPF'ed back to the pedal or run it to an amp. I kind of still wonder with the Tyler as to what happens 'in the middle' if you have the two pass-filters set a ways apart. The page doesn't address what happens if you have a 'donut hole' in your filters.

Probably the type of filter used is part of the magic of what's going to work or not work for you. The Divaricator is a '4th order' which is pretty steep, as is the L/R filter on the Cross-Mix, and the filter on the Sugar-Britches is described as a "gentle crossover for smooth blend and coherent transient response" which would suggest it's less steep than the others I have. That indeed may be why a phase switch makes a noticeable difference as it's got a fair amount of 'cross-talk' between both signals.

For my taste the HPF and LPF should be ganged so the crossover lines up regardless of where the frequency is set. Otherwise you don't get good phase integration across the crossover range. The steeper the filter sections the more severe the problem. I believe 6dB filters would be fine if they were not lined up perfectly. 12dB or higher would cause some degree of comb filtering if the filter are not perfectly aligned.

 

[monsterthompson]

Tyler builds a really nice pedal, but I can't help but feel like there's a couple tweaks on the Divaricator that would make it better...like an 'exciter bypass' to take that out of the circuit altogether.

My biggest issue with the Divaricator was that I wanted to use it with distortion, but the loss in gain when you set the crossover resulted in the distortion pedals behaving very differently. It needed a gain/boost control to bring the split signal level back up to a point where the dirt pedal would react more like it would with a full spectrum signal.

 

[BurningSkies]

For my taste the HPF and LPF should be ganged so the crossover lines up regardless of where the frequency is set. Otherwise you don't get good phase integration across the crossover range. The steeper the filter sections the more severe the problem. I believe 6dB filters would be fine if they were not lined up perfectly. 12dB or higher would cause some degree of comb filtering if the filter are not perfectly aligned.

Yeah, the Tyler is 12db per octave...It's also the only one that has different controls for both hp/lp rather than a single control that rolls one up while the other back and vice-versa.

Also, I'd suggest anyone who's using a fuzz in the loop, there is a use for that phase switch.

 

[31HZ]

I haven't seen mention of the Ouroboros. I picked one up new (they were happy to make one for me) after first trying to get an [sfx] XM without success, before realizing how large it (the Ouroboros) would be on my board. Soon afterwards I contacted John K to see about making one more CrossMix (to my understanding, there are only 5 of them out there!), and have been waiting for some time for that to arrive.

I'll be eager to hear how you folks have yours set up!

 

[bass.slinger]

Bored Brain Transmutron is where I ended up.
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How does this compare to the Brimstone Ouroboros?

 

[monsterthompson]

How does this compare to the Brimstone Ouroboros?

Not sure. I looked at that box a while back, but never tried it. I’ll look at it again and see how different they are. The fallout mode, and the ability to control the slope of the crossover stands out, off the top of my head. There’s no CV control on the Brimstone. The Brimstone makes it easier to select loops A and B solo. You can solo the loops on the Transmutron, but you cycle through A/B/A&B with a single stomp.

 

[bass.slinger]

Not sure. I looked at that box a while back, but never tried it. I’ll look at it again and see how different they are. The fallout mode, and the ability to control the slope of the crossover stands out, off the top of my head. There’s no CV control on the Brimstone. The Brimstone makes it easier to select loops A and B solo. You can solo the loops on the Transmutron, but you cycle through A/B/A&B with a single stomp.

Thanks. I own and really like the Ouroboros - it does what I need and I can live with the footprint. It has no detrimental affect on tone - something I am very particular about. It uses the same crossover circuit as the XD-2 (without the distortion) which I also own and love.

 

[monsterthompson]

Thanks. I own and really like the Ouroboros - it does what I need and I can live with the footprint. It has no detrimental affect on tone - something I am very particular about. It uses the same crossover circuit as the XD-2 (without the distortion) which I also own and love.

No problem.
Looks like the Brimstone gives you a series/parallel option the Transmutron doesn’t have. The Transmutron does have an upper/lower frequency limit adjustment control the Brimstone doesn’t. I’m sure they are both wonderful boxes.

The other fun thing with the Transmutron is that the 3.5mm jacks can be set to inst/line level and you can patch them in to the Boredbrain Patchulator, which is an interesting take on a patch bay for routing various effects loops and signal paths.

 

[ELynx]

Sub'd. Topic I am highly interested as I do processing of lows and highs separately. Now I deal with LS-2 and EQs on the pedals / Multi-FX, but this is of interest.
So far I see feature in LS-2 (and I know it exists in Transmutron) where singnal can be inserted without being sent. E.g. I use LS-2 to sum signal from two pickups processed differently, so none of "Send" jacks are even occupied.
What I saw in LS-2 and not elsewhere is Mode switch (A / B / Bypass / Sum) so LS-2 and EQ is still can give some competition. I wonder if they ever release LS-2 Waza with better buffers.

 

[BurningSkies]

Sub'd. Topic I am highly interested as I do processing of lows and highs separately. Now I deal with LS-2 and EQs on the pedals / Multi-FX, but this is of interest.
So far I see feature in LS-2 (and I know it exists in Transmutron) where singnal can be inserted without being sent. E.g. I use LS-2 to sum signal from two pickups processed differently, so none of "Send" jacks are even occupied.
What I saw in LS-2 and not elsewhere is Mode switch (A / B / Bypass / Sum) so LS-2 and EQ is still can give some competition. I wonder if they ever release LS-2 Waza with better buffers.

Yep, and you could do that with many of these. Use the 'in' for one pickup and the 'return' for the second in.

 

[ELynx]

Yep, and you could do that with many of these. Use the 'in' for one pickup and the 'return' for the second in.

This is why I subbed. LS-2 has that "secret" feature that when you don't plug one channels bot send and return it is a "closed loop" so some part of detection is involved. Transmutron specifically says that you can insert signal via "return" without anything in "send" (I think in manual as well as demo video). But maybe some pedals need to have a jack in "send" to register "return" as signal source. So I am into this thread, for detail like that.

So far Transmutron is my "faworite" because of sheer options, but LS-2 is cheaper, could be easily bought new or used if something happes. Until I make big $ I guess it is LS-2 for me =)

 

[Robertron]

That makes sense to me. You can set up two parallel EQs to mimic frequency splitting by cutting frequencies from one EQ that are boosted in the other, and vice versa.

(Aftershock plug ahead, here we go again)
In my Aftershock I have one preset where I cut the highs from one channel and cut the lows from the other, at around 250hz.
I wanted to create a tone where the lower frequencies were given a pronounced overdrive color without the high frequencies screaming. Until I started EQing the upper frequencies out I often found that by boosting the drive to get the right rumble in the lows the highs would become too pronounced to even hear the lows well.

 

[40Hz]

believe 6dB filters would be fine if they were not lined up perfectly. 12dB or higher would cause some degree of comb filtering if the filter are not perfectly aligned.

^This.

Although that can also be an interesting effect sometimes.

 

[brianrost]

I use the crossover effect in my Zoom B3 as a HPF in my busking rig.

 

[Ric5]

This is what I am currently using for effects.



1 - First I run into an equalizer

2 - Then I split the signal into 4 parallel signals with a rolls mixer.

3 - I run one of the parallel lines into the Line6 bass pod where I model an acoustic 360 with a rat or big muff distortion pedal. I use this to get a retro growlly distorted sound. Or I also model an Ampeg fliptop with the Rat Distortion pedal. And I also Model an old Marshall amp. With the bass pod I can get a wide range of clean or dirty sounds and various effects and model different amps and speaker cabinets.

4 - The second parallel signal goes into a MXR bass di+. I use this pedal to get a clean modern sound. It also has a distortion button that can give a moderate to extreme amount of modern distortion.

5 - The third parallel signal goes into a Marshall Guv'nor. This gives me an old 60s marshall stack sound. This can go from a small amount of distortion to an over the top marshall sound. This effect can give you a the classic Jack Bruce Cream tone.

6 - The fourth parallel signal goes into a Tech21 VT Bass pedal. With this effect I get a slightly dirty Ampeg SVT bass amp sound with a tube like growl.

7 - Then I remix the 4 signals back together and run it into a bass amp, or pa, or studio mixer. Because the signals are parallel I can mix clean and overdriven sounds together and still get effect and a sound that punches through the mix.

Schematic diagram of my effects.

 

[bassrique]

This conversation is above my head.
The Royal Blood (Mike Kerr?) bassist uses a crossover, no? It sounds like the higher frequencies get the guitar distortion treatment.