Dead spots/notes and Fenders

[lowendrachel]

I had a Fender 24 that sounded awesome. However, it had two dead spots. It bothered me. That was my first Fender.

 

[pingvuiini]

I have experienced pesky dead spots on basses with wood necks, graphite necks, headed, headless, bolt on, set neck, thru neck, magnetic pups, piezo, tapewounds, roundwounds, fretted and fretless. The worst was on a headed FSO with a solid graphite neck on the open A like micguy from post #20 above. I never thought a dead spot could ever occur on an open string. So don't get too caught up in the idea that graphite or headless or the type of neck joint will cure dead spots.

Interestingly, my current collection has the least amount of dead spots I've ever had. I can only attribute it to the ultra short 23" uke scale. The worst were the two Kalas on the third fret of the E string. They actually weren't dead spots but they sounded very 'hollow' compared to all the other notes. The problem was solved very effectively by installing a Babicz bridge which has a much larger surface contact area than the standard Fender style bridges. All the other basses sound nice and even. It's such a relief not having to worry about playing around dead spots anymore.

 

[JamesGrant]

This is a good point, I’d forgotten… I used to have a duffer of a dead spot on my Fender Jazz, about Bb on E string. Could really notice the tone of the note was janky, and could also really hear acoustically when not plugged in (multiple sets of strings!). Re-set up with slightly lower gauge strings (multiple sets since!) about a year ago and I’ve not thought about it since - problem gone away. I guess the change combination of stresses and tensions makes the bass resonate differently? Or maybe it’s voodoo and I exorcised the curse using the power of soul (as Jimi said, with the ‘power of soul, anything is possibooowle’).

 

[Paul New]

I’ve noticed just lately that my electric basses have, in addition to the B-D spot, some reduction in sustain and output at the F# on the E string. A band arrangement I played called for a prominent, sustained low F# and I was pretty shocked to learn that I don’t have one of those available.

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

This will add to the neck dive.

So Anyway, you'll also need to upgrade your car's shocks when you take the Fathead bass to a gig.

 

[ahbradot]

Tony Iommi put crosses on his guitar neck to just to make sure he could "Bury the Dead"-spots for good.

 

[J Wilson]

Horsefeathers. Yes, carbon fiber is stiffer, but it's also 3x the density of maple. If you want to take the resonance frequency of a bass neck from approximately 50 Hz (the lowest resonant mode is one that typically doesn't affect basses, but it does show up on headless designs sometimes) to past 20 kHz, you would need a modulus of elasticity of about 10 to the 18th power Pa (assuming similar density) - that surpasses anything we have available on Earth, or that we know of in the cosmos. There's a square root in the math, and higher stiffness materials are also typically denser than wood, which means even diamond, which is the best we have in terms of stiffness falls very far short of what's required for your goal. All that means, for something the size and shape of a bass neck, it's gonna resonate in the audio spectrum.

All necks (even the Kramer aluminum ones I had in the past) have areas on the neck where there is reduced sustain. Whether or not you call something a dead spot is an arbitrary subjective judgement.

And, by the way, as wood does age, that dead spot that "appeared or disappeared" magically? Yeah, it can actually happen. One of the good things about a roasted neck is, since it is already aged, if it's good to start with, chances are you are good for the duration. If it has a dead spot, however, it's yours for life.

If you have a bass that has a bothersome dead spot, my suggestion is try tuning it to D standard - that'll often mitigate it enough to where it's not a problem. If you have a bass that (to your perception) doesn't have a dead spot, my suggestion is don't go looking for one. Once you find it (it is there to some degree), it's impossible to forget that it's there.

Oh, and no, making a bass with a neck through or glued in neck doesn't get around the Physics. It'll still have "areas of reduced sustain" if not outright dead spots. No getting around it.

Boy, do I stand corrected, and I grew up in Texas never knowing horses had feathers . . .

 

[micguy]

Boy, do I stand corrected, and I grew up in Texas never knowing horses had feathers . . .

No probkem - that myth about bass necks with no resonances in the audio range makes the rounds from time to time. Lots of folks get taken in by it.

 

[v-12]

Worst dead spot on any bass I’ve ever played was a USA P. Beautiful bass, but it was pretty annoying when I needed to use that note.

I’ll agree with others to not look for a dead spot because you’ll likely find one to a certain degree. If you decide to look for a dead spot, I’ve noticed that playing through a noise gate helps find them quickly- the noise gate will choke the dead note much more quickly than others.

 

[bass12]

The absolute worst dead spot (by far) I have ever encountered was on a headless bass. The open A string was a dull thud - it had no sense of pitch whatsoever.

The worst dead spot I've ever encountered was also on a headless bass (graphite to boot). And that's not the only headless bass with a dead spot that I've played.

 

[micguy]

The worst dead spot I've ever encountered was also on a headless bass (graphite to boot). And that's not the only headless bass with a dead spot that I've played.

A cantilevered beam (a bass neck is one of those) has a a bunch of resonances - the lowest one (frequency wise) has it's lone antinode at the end of the beam. If you make a headless, and that resonance is the same frequency as an open string, it's a very bad thing. Basses with headstocks don't have any notes where the string is "fretted" at the end of the neck - the nut is nowhere near the end of the neck, so....they are immune to that resonance.

The claim that headless basses are immune to dead spots is hogwash. The claim that they have fewer of them..I'd need to study a lot of basses to see if that holds up on a statistical basis, but there's no basis in the Physics for that to be the case.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

If you find one particularly objectionable you can add mass to minimize or relocate the dead spot to be less obvious. The '80's saw a variety of brass or steel plates to add headstock mass. The Fathead was one thatcomes to mind.
View attachment 7422212

I'd rather have a dead spot than a heavy neck/headstock though. Only one note is les punchy, but an unbalanced bass makes the whole playing experience unpleasant.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

You can feel a deadspot. When you pluck the string, the neck vibrates. I've heard the nodes can be in between pitches, which might explain why some basses don't seem to have them.

as @micguy said, tuning to D standard will often get rid of them.

My Streamer Stage II is the only bass I have that doesn't have a pronounced dead spot, but I bet it has one hiding somewhere, maybe between the frets.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Math aside, if my Steinberger XP-2 has any dead spots, I can't hear them, plugged in or not, in which their proven existence is irrelevant, at least to me. All my wood necked basses have dead spots, which proves nothing about the Steinberger as a sample of one, maybe I just got lucky, but every L2 I ever picked up in the early 80's sounded exactly the same: super hi-fi consistency across the whole board, and no audible dead spots. If you could locate a dead spot on an L2 using an oscilloscope or something, I'm guessing they'd all be in the exact same location.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Ok first thanks to everyone who responded. I am not looking to chase them as they don't exist for me.
That said I do neck through basses and guitars mostly. I believe lots of issues have to do with neck construction and specific wood density preventing the evil dead zones.

Well I'm not seeing any folks claiming problems with the Fender cousins, interesting.
What do you suppose G&L and Musicman/Sterling solved?

I agree with Gilmourisgod, the CF with Steinberger and also with Zon is scary consistent.

Ah yeah one last thing, I believe the folks having issues with nut/open string deadness could something else.
I would argue that's a nut problem not a dead zone at all. Too tight and pinching at the nut can deaden things quickly.

 

[tubedude]

I'd rather have a dead spot than a heavy neck/headstock though. Only one note is les punchy, but an unbalanced bass makes the whole playing experience unpleasant.

Those aren't your only options. Counterweight, for one. Several other remedies are available. I think Fender has a lightweight clamp to move dead spots also.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

I’ve been pretty successful at mitigating dead spots over the years by tightening the neck, bridge and headstock hardware. It’s often surprising how “incomplete” the assembly process sometimes is. Also, changing strings can make a significant difference - especially if you’re reducing the tension of a string with a dead spot.

I live in a dry climate and often have to tighten screws in my basses and wood-shell drums after they arrive. The wood dries out a bit and shrinks.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Ah well that raises another interesting question, do dead spots happen, or are they found in Winter or Summer?
So perhaps humidity changing, interesting.
Or are they consistent?

 

[bass12]

Ah well that raises another interesting question, do dead spots happen, or are they found in Winter or Summer?
So perhaps humidity changing, interesting.
Or are they consistent?

I live in a place with pretty extreme humidity swings. The winters here are very dry while the summers are very humid. I’ve never noticed any change in the dead spots on my basses. And I’m pretty sure both of my MusicMan StingRays had dead spots in the usual Fender zone.