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Dead Spots on the neck of a bolt-on

Dec 3, 2010
1,754
234
We had a very spirited debate on the subject last night. I swore that my Mike Lull M4V has no dead spots, and several people disagreed, quoted Roger Sadowsky, and even implied that I didn't know what a dead spot sounded like! LOL

So as fate would have it today, I woke up to see nothing but blue skies in Seattle, plenty of sunshine, and a nice cool breeze, a perfect day for a walk down to Mike Lull's shop. I called it a trek to the top of the mountain, to get the scoop on the subject from as good a bass builder as there is!

Mike was kind enough to sit down and talk to me about the subject, in depth, talk about basses, amps, and music in general. You won't find a nicer guy in the business and his instruments are world class to boot!

His take was that dead spots are somewhat inevitable on basses with a 34" scale, not necessarily bolt-ons. He feels that 35" scale basses eliminate the dead spot problems, but can create other issues, so it's not the perfect answer either. He feels that the main cause of these dead spots is the flex of the headstock, the lack of rigidity in the neck, the neck shape, and the tuning pegs.

He mentioned the fact that the P-Bass tends to have less of a dead spot than the Jazz because of the wider neck. Mike also said that the old 50's P-Basses, with their massive necks were so resonant that were no dead spots, bolt-on necks and all!

He said with a real well built bass, like my M4V, or a NYC Sadowsky, it's possible that the dead spot may be there, but you can hardly notice it, and it may not be noticeable at all, but tecnically if you wanted to hook the thing up to some kind of scope, or computer it would still be there. He also said that he builds his basses with Hipshot Ultra-Lite tuners and graphite reinforced necks, and those are two main factors why I can't notice mine.

So the argument that all bolt-on necks have an inherrant dead spot is not exactly true, but he generally agreed with your guys Sadowsky quote on the fact that dead spots are an issue, and that on a 34" scale bass can never be 100% eliminated but with the right build and the right materials it can be reduced to a non-factor. But if you wanted to build a 35" scale bass, or a 34" bass with a massive neck and the right tuners, it COULD be eliminated, but the trick in building a great bass, is to get that neck shape and feel that we all love, and build it so the dead spot is minimal. I'd say he accomplised that on my bass!

I consider Mike's word to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth on the subject! He said technically there is a dead spot on my neck, so I will be a man and admit that I was wrong, and you guys were right! But I have a highly developed ear and I still can't hear it!!!! So my end result is, buy a Lull!
 
Mike's a world class guy, no doubt!
He built a beautiful bass for me, no dead spots!
I happened to be at his shop yesterday dropping off a couple of my Thunderbirds.......He's got a new project in the works :)
 
Well my Fender CS 55 reissue P-bass very well made, has that classic chunky neck, but still has that dead spot on the G string at the 5th fret (or maybe its the 6th).

But I use heavy flatwounds on that bass and want the notes to decay quickly anyway so it works out. :)

He said they are more prevalent on Fenders, but I would have thought a Fender Custom Shop 55 P would be up for the challenge. Is the neck graphite reinforced? He did say that the old P-Basses had necks that were naturally dried for fifteen years before it was ever cut into a neck, and that modern guitars get neck wood that is kiln dried and if you're lucky a few years old and that was a big factor too.
 
He said they are more prevalent on Fenders, but I would have thought a Fender Custom Shop 55 P would be up for the challenge. Is the neck graphite reinforced? He did say that the old P-Basses had necks that were naturally dried for fifteen years before it was ever cut into a neck, and that modern guitars get neck wood that is kiln dried and if you're lucky a few years old and that was a big factor too.

No graphite on a reissue, they're made just like they used to make 'em back in the 50's though. Except I'm sure the wood isn't aged anymore. I don't know that there is any magic to the CS wood used over any other wood Fender currently uses. It's just subtle difference in the note, partly I'm sure because all the notes are pretty dead given my use of old flatwound strings, but I can hear it.
 
With all due respect to Mike, I wouldn't be too quick to view any one luthier's views on an issue such as dead spots as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Opinions often vary on such subjects (although there are certain fairly consistent views regarding dead spots) and you'd be better off not taking one person's view as the gospel truth. As far as the idea that 35" scale basses "eliminate the dead spot problems" is concerned: nonsense. I've played plenty of expertly crafted 35" basses that possessed noticeable dead spots.
 
The only way I have gotten rid of a dead spot is to clamp a cresent wrench to the headstock. Serious sustain....bit it makes for a neck-divin' bastard of a bass. Other than that, my basses have always had varying degrees of dead spots. Almost always around the 5th/6th frets on the G string.
 
I would say all basses have some notes that resonate better than others. And sometimes when you play that less resonating note in a different location it resonates better. On some basses there are dead spots.

All basses have flaws. But many have strengths that out-weigh the flaws. Or some flaws will drive one person nuts and not bother another. Or what one person really likes about a bass another really dislikes.
 
We had a very spirited debate on the subject last night. I swore that my Mike Lull M4V has no dead spots, and several people disagreed, quoted Roger Sadowsky, and even implied that I didn't know what a dead spot sounded like! LOL

So as fate would have it today, I woke up to see nothing but blue skies in Seattle, plenty of sunshine, and a nice cool breeze, a perfect day for a walk down to Mike Lull's shop. I called it a trek to the top of the mountain, to get the scoop on the subject from as good a bass builder as there is!

Mike was kind enough to sit down and talk to me about the subject, in depth, talk about basses, amps, and music in general. You won't find a nicer guy in the business and his instruments are world class to boot!

His take was that dead spots are somewhat inevitable on basses with a 34" scale, not necessarily bolt-ons. He feels that 35" scale basses eliminate the dead spot problems, but can create other issues, so it's not the perfect answer either. He feels that the main cause of these dead spots is the flex of the headstock, the lack of rigidity in the neck, the neck shape, and the tuning pegs.

He mentioned the fact that the P-Bass tends to have less of a dead spot than the Jazz because of the wider neck. Mike also said that the old 50's P-Basses, with their massive necks were so resonant that were no dead spots, bolt-on necks and all!

He said with a real well built bass, like my M4V, or a NYC Sadowsky, it's possible that the dead spot may be there, but you can hardly notice it, and it may not be noticeable at all, but tecnically if you wanted to hook the thing up to some kind of scope, or computer it would still be there. He also said that he builds his basses with Hipshot Ultra-Lite tuners and graphite reinforced necks, and those are two main factors why I can't notice mine.

So the argument that all bolt-on necks have an inherrant dead spot is not exactly true, but he generally agreed with your guys Sadowsky quote on the fact that dead spots are an issue, and that on a 34" scale bass can never be 100% eliminated but with the right build and the right materials it can be reduced to a non-factor. But if you wanted to build a 35" scale bass, or a 34" bass with a massive neck and the right tuners, it COULD be eliminated, but the trick in building a great bass, is to get that neck shape and feel that we all love, and build it so the dead spot is minimal. I'd say he accomplised that on my bass!

I consider Mike's word to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth on the subject! He said technically there is a dead spot on my neck, so I will be a man and admit that I was wrong, and you guys were right! But I have a highly developed ear and I still can't hear it!!!! So my end result is, buy a Lull!

Totally disagree with this. I have never heard a difference in 'dead spot' incidence related to scale length nor neck design. All basses have dead spots. Many 34" scale basses (like my pariticular Sadowsky basses) have very minimal deadspots. Same for 35" basses in my experience playing a few hundred of each type over the years (and always checking for dead spots as one of the first things I do in a bass store when evaluating an instrument).

It is very easy to identify a deadspot. Just play long, ringing notes from the 2nd to 7th fret of the G string. You will hear a quicker decay of the fundamental on and around the dead spot on your neck. Most of the time, the fundamental just fades a touch faster into the harmonic, and it is a zero issue. In rare cases (regardless of scale length) the fundamental will virtually not sound. This is luckily quite rare, but it does happen.
 
prd004 said:
He did say that the old P-Basses had necks that were naturally dried for fifteen years before it was ever cut into a neck, and that modern guitars get neck wood that is kiln dried and if you're lucky a few years old and that was a big factor too.
Is this supposed to imply that old Pbasses had fewer dead spots? That's not been my experience. I recently played a very nice '66 with noticeable dead spots in the usual place (just one of many examples of that).

Mike Forrester of Forrester Kustoms recently shared his thoughts on the subject with me and is also of the belief that neck stiffness plays an important role along with other factors, of course. We talked about the effectiveness of single cut designs in reducing dead spots and other factors like neck thickness, length, mass, reinforcement... I think most experienced and knowledgeable luthiers have reached similar conclusions but it's such a complex problem that there will always be some differences of opinion.
 
Totally disagree with this. I have never heard a difference in 'dead spot' incidence related to scale length nor neck design. All basses have dead spots. Many 34" scale basses (like my pariticular Sadowsky basses) have very minimal deadspots. Same for 35" basses in my experience playing a few hundred of each type over the years (and always checking for dead spots as one of the first things I do in a bass store when evaluating an instrument).

It is very easy to identify a deadspot. Just play long, ringing notes from the 2nd to 7th fret of the G string. You will hear a quicker decay of the fundamental on and around the dead spot on your neck. Most of the time, the fundamental just fades a touch faster into the harmonic, and it is a zero issue. In rare cases (regardless of scale length) the fundamental will virtually not sound. This is luckily quite rare, but it does happen.

It is your right to disagree with this all you want!

I will take the word of a world renown bass builer, who took the time to sit down with me face to face and discuss the topic in person (for free) over some anonymous Talk Bass poster.
 

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