I even live in an airstream style trailer, yet ain't no space aliens probed my butt yet. Maybe I should change my name to Verne or Bub a.
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Dealing with Dumb Bandmates
- Thread starter lovethegrowl
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I even live in an airstream style trailer, yet ain't no space aliens probed my butt yet. Maybe I should change my name to Verne or Bub a.
Actually, the drummer plays in a community big band* that rehearses on Sundays. He describes it as amateurish (in the good sense of the term, playing for the love of it). He uses the metronome there & often says that the band will start at 118, then slow down to 112 by the end of a piece.
Passive-aggressive? I would say no, but it almost feels that way. A month ago when we practiced three consecutive nights Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday & spent what I think was way too much time between numbers there really was too much levity, joking between numbers. (It brought back negative recollections of Junior High garage bands.) I'm chronically ill w/a muscle inflammatory condition, Mondays & Tuesdays are my only days off. I was pretty damn dizzy & fatigued (& stiff) it took every ounce of effort & restraint (on my part) to get through that week. I kept thinking 'just do it, quit messing around & get to the next number!' I still haven't recovered, we've been busy & I question if I can continue. I'm damn burned out.
So my perspective on this matter might be that of a tired, ornery, curmudgeon. I really hate wasting rehearsal time.
he's a bad musician.
his priorities seem strange to me. i'd much rather hear a fluctuating tempo, with performers that are all communicating with each other well- thats what good music is, isint it? if you set a metronome to any amazing live performance, there will be spots where it moves. it's alright.
his priorities seem strange to me. i'd much rather hear a fluctuating tempo, with performers that are all communicating with each other well- thats what good music is, isint it? if you set a metronome to any amazing live performance, there will be spots where it moves. it's alright.
You're absolutely right about letting the tempo fluxuate. I said it over & over again about"letting the music breath".
The people who have attacked me on this thread regarding clicks, are probably from the post 80s era in which some hit songs have synthesized drum tracks throughout the whole thing. For that kinda music rigid metronomic drum tracks are the norm. And I normally don't like that stuff---what I really HATE is electronic pitch correction, & of course there are going to be younger BT users attacking me on that issue. (Just the way young people actually get defensive about my not liking women with tattoos.)
The drummer has competent technique, very well versed in lots of styles, but his nearly religious adherence to absolute steady time as an end in itself, is excessive, wrongheaded, not part of the style of the music we play.
The people who have attacked me on this thread regarding clicks, are probably from the post 80s era in which some hit songs have synthesized drum tracks throughout the whole thing. For that kinda music rigid metronomic drum tracks are the norm. And I normally don't like that stuff---what I really HATE is electronic pitch correction, & of course there are going to be younger BT users attacking me on that issue. (Just the way young people actually get defensive about my not liking women with tattoos.)
The drummer has competent technique, very well versed in lots of styles, but his nearly religious adherence to absolute steady time as an end in itself, is excessive, wrongheaded, not part of the style of the music we play.
Post #88 I meant to quote post #86. I won't go so far as to say the drummer's a bad musician. That would be unfair. In fact, he's better a drummer than I am a bassist. But he's misguided regarding one important aspect.
Also, has any one here gone to Applebee's & heard tunes like "I only miss you when I'm breathing"? It's that kinda stuff that represents everything about modern day pop culture that I detest. You talk about "square", rigid, damn empty IMO.
Also, has any one here gone to Applebee's & heard tunes like "I only miss you when I'm breathing"? It's that kinda stuff that represents everything about modern day pop culture that I detest. You talk about "square", rigid, damn empty IMO.
OK, fine, I'll take a crack at it. Pitch correction, like compression, is a great way to make singers who like to get overly dramatic sound a little calmer and sit in a mix better. And just knowing it exists is a great security blanket for singers, even if it's not actually going to get used. Anything that boosts a singer's confidence is a good thing in my book.
How's that?
You're right! Singers like Pavarotti, Freni, Ella Fitzgerald, Bobby McFerrin, Lauritz Melchior, Mel Torme all could have benefitted from pitch correction. God they sucked. Who needs all that subtlety when it can be replaced with nasal twang. Lots & lots of nasal twang
I'm old, what do you expect. And on that last post I meant refinement & subtlety. Didn't have my reading glasses.
i'm from an earlier era,and i hate ink on chicks....frankly i think men could use some decoratin',but chicks usually look pretty darn good from the factory....buy you are off base on the click thing...
.your drum guy is trying to get things right and you want it your way whether it makes sense or not....no one says that a click has to be like a german railway schedule....if a click starts your tunes of at close to the correct tempo you are miles ahead....
don't believe me,check out youtube for bands flying through their own back catalogs at mach one....they may be bored with those songs but the audience is not and would like to hear them played the way they remember them....i cannot for the life of me understand why you just won't leave it alone...maybe you'll be happy when your drum guy tires of you and quits....
Hmmm, that's easy. If I were the dumb one I would use my metronome on a more limited basis, stop staring at it as if it was some kind of hypnotic device and PLAY MUSIC
Well, I remember Mel Torme totally sucked playing the role of a gang leader in some old black and white movie where he got beat up by Paul Anka. But that's not really the point.
Pitch correction can be used to make overly dramatic singers sound more subtle than they really are. Sure, that's cheating, but I'm a "win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat" kind of guy.
First off, Casting Mel Torme as a gang leader, someone with that weak a double chin, not a good idea.
OK. I was asked to "let all this go" I agreed with Mr. Campbell and thought he was right. It seemed earlier in a post that he agreed with me, that my drummer was fixing stuff that wasn't broken. I looked up his bass influences that included Steve Swallow--one of mine. That gives me pause to think--not sure what.
But on the subject of voice correction:
15 months ago my 32 1/2 year old Blue Fronted Amazon died unexpectedly. I had the expectation he'd outlive me. I was so painful & traumatic for me that I couldn't spend much time in my trailer alone. My trailer, formerly had been picture perfect place for the two of us. After the bird's death, I couldn't be alone in the trailer. It was morbid, almost haunted.
I spent all my evenings out with my laptop, emailing just about every person I know--just to distract myself from the loss & trauma. Anything to avoid going home to my empty trailer.
First it was Starbucks, then it was Applebee's, where I used the WiFi until I was kicked out at closing. At Applebee's they played lots of fairly current pop stuff. Most of it I would describe as empty, substance less, banal beyond description.
There was one tune played at Applebees that pops in my head now. " I only muss you when I'm breathing". There were others. I'm not sure what pop sub genre those tunes can be categorized as. Not R & B.
I found nearly all those Applebee tune selections offensive. Intolerable. All of them marked by a relentlessly aggressive electronics beat that I felt assaulted by. Another salient feature of that music was banality, excessive simplicity (to the point of being way too predictable). Yes, I believe that for music to be meaningful, significant, some goal oriented tendencies must be suppressed. There has to be some uncertainty to generate tension. (Great book, "Emotion & Meaning in Music" by the Leonard B. Meyer, I'd highly recommend.)
Of course, most of these banal tunes had pitch correction. The .mechanical & nasal quality of the pitch corrected vocals offended me even more. It got offensive. About a month after my birds passing I was so sick of being assaulted, smacked over the head by that loud, rowdy, offensive garbage at Applebee's, that I simply started going home to my empty, spooky trailer.
As for your argument that voice correction can mask deficiencies of 'overly dramatic' singers? My counter argument is that if an electric devise is needed to mask any of a singers shortcomings, don't perform with that singer & don't go to their performances. There are lots of really good vocalists out there, give THEM a chance.
Conversely, if pitch correction can & will mask the negative qualities of poor singers, then it will just as effectively mask good qualities of singers that actually are skilled & refined. Starting with vocal timbre/quality, voice correction will impart a nasal twangy quality that wasn't originally present, , and isn't desirable. (Just listen to Shania Twain sing her last hit, 'Forever & Always'. Nice song, touching video, but the use voice correction was a big mistake in the interest of being trendy & gimmicky. Should've kept it organic.) Anybody think that tune's better because of voice correction?
Voice correction not only alters (even kills) the timbre of a nice voice, vibrato is eliminated (good vocalists spend years cultivating an expressive vibrato) & subtly of refinement of phrasing is also lost.
I really do aspire to play Brazilian jazz, even Bossa Nova. I love it! I'm crazy about Flora Purim, Eliane Elias, even Lani Hall & Astrid Gilberto. I will never be good enough to play with the likes of Purim, who's a monster, nor will I be good enough to play with a pianist as skilled as Elaine Elias ( her bassist husband Marc Johnson's one lucky mo-fo let me tell ya). (But it's conceivable that I could get to perform with a "poor man's' Lani Hall or Astrid Gilberto). Can anyone out there say that any of these Brazilian jazz singers (hardcore or Bossa Nova) can benefit from voice correction. Voice correction would KILL the genre.
Voice correction I think is more limited to a certain modern type of pop genre, & if it's your cup of tea, fine. Not mine! In my world, learn to sing in tune or don't sing, & being able to play in rhythm without the crutch of a metronome is the price of admission to perform at a semi-pro level.
FFS .. I've been basically shaking my head reading this thread, but not willing to enter the mess, but these days .. well, pro drummers that I know are called upon to play to a click due as they play with samples and backing track running. Claiming that they play without expression in those situations just because there is a click in their ears is BS.
Price of admission to semi-pro level ??
