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Dealing with The Band Killer

#21
And on the heels of that... I can lay out the vision of what I prefer for my bands.

I like the band to somewhat be a democracy, honestly. I have a career and a marriage that needs attention, and I feel like I need help moving things forward.

For example, I can't hang out in a bar every night of the week trying to book gigs. I'm also not the greatest promoter.

However, I do have a practice space that's air conditioned and has an alarm system, built over 2 years at my cost and with much of my labor. I also have a full trailer with PA, lights, and I have trained my wife pretty well to run sound. I provide these support services free of charge to the band, with the exception being that my wife is paid for her time if she's going to run sound. I don't ask for anything from anyone and the majority of my earnings go back into gear.

In these cases, someone has to book the shows, someone has to promote, someone has to be the "heart and soul" of the band, someone has to have a gift for picking songs and making a set list. Someone has to understand the technical details to make the band look and sound good. Someone has to inspire everyone to put on a SHOW and entertain the crowd with their charismatic personality. Someone has to pick up the slack when someone's having problems in their personal life and needs a little reprieve from the band, and everyone needs to be understanding when someone has to cancel an occasional show due to a family or work emergency.

If you all work together, no one person has to carry the slack. You become friends and not just business partners. You build something to last; not something that's contingent upon cash flow or power over another person.

It's an idealistic view, and I guess it's what's been flawed about a lot of my bands. Eventually someone starts wanting to be a "leader" and stops thinking about everyone but themselves. Selfishness and Jealousy are the two worst enemies of a democratic band, I suppose.

That and the guitarist sleeping with the drummer's wife. Stuff like that. Or the guy singer screwing the girl singer.
 
#22
I got back into playing locally about 2 years ago. I hadn't worked the bars/clubs gig scene since the early 90's. The first thing I noticed is many people that are still playing these gigs are still in high school mentally.

I have no time at all for drama queens, back stabbers, scumbags or addicts of any kind. I waded through a few bands until I found a group of guys at the same point in life as me. We enjoy hanging out and have had many great gigs this summer.

Don't waste any time trying to make someone something they're not. Cut your losses and start working with other musicians. Life's too short to play with people you don't get along with.

Just my 2 cents.
 
#25
Some people seem to be more into creating drama than actually being productive in their lives. I've decided that being where I'm at in life (I just entered my 30's, have a house, help run a business, and am married), I don't have time for people that create drama.

I used to be in a cover band that was constant drama. One of the singers always seemed to have some issue or another. One time she showed up to practice high. Another she was having boyfriend issues and crying about it. Another time she was late because she left her car unlocked in a bad part of town, and her stuff was stolen from it. Another time she brought her kid along to practice without notice. I don't know why we gave her so much slack. Her voice was "OK" but not stellar, and she showed a constant inability to learn the words (she didn't play an instrument either). I think it was just a reflection of how dysfunctional that group was, that someone like that didn't get quickly rooted out. You just can't be productive long term, with those types of people in your band. This is assuming your goals are anything higher than practicing the same songs over and over at a very mediocre level for over a year.

People can change, but you can't change people. Don't waste your time with people that want to drag you down to their level.
 
#26
Learning how to deal with 2 of them ATM as I go.

Main issue is complaining about each other to me but never actually talking to each other letting problems stew for years with no solution.
Glad it's coming to a head soon... just after I invested in a studio in my basement.

If only I can get them to talk to each other like adults and not bitching little spoiled girls.
 
#28
billhilly66 said:
That works for businesses because there is a boss to do the firing. The bands I work with are that way too but apparently a lot of guys here are in fully democratic bands and do things by committee. I’ve always wondered how that works.
Click to expand...

It doesn't.

Not to flog a dead horse... but when it comes down to democracy vs. dictatorship, democracy will always lose. The band will *always* eventually break up.

The most "successful" bands I've played with were run by a bandleader who doubles as manager and booking agent. Even if he doesn't do a good job in all 3 categories, that's the guy that keeps the band going. And fires people who complain, or go behind his back to the other band members. ;) If you have an issue, always take it directly to the boss, and respect his decision. Or you may be looking for a new job.

The OP's categories seem to apply mainly to bands that are run like a democracy. In these cases, the "significant other" is always the most likely to be the band killer. I have a couple of rules that go a long way to alleviate this problem.

1) Don't bring friends or girlfriends to practice.

You're there to work. Unless they are pros in the business, they probably have no understanding of professional courtesy. Like keeping their opinions to themselves unless respectfully asked in a professional capacity.

2) Never discuss band business in public.

That includes anyplace a "significant other" is within earshot. They will always feel obligated to chime in with their opinion, even though it may not be until later when they are in private with your bandmate. Just like the mob, it's better for your family not to know anything about your business.

3) When the "significant other" is IN the band, don't take the gig.

Usually this will be a husband/wife or boyfriend/girlfriend situation, but also applies when 2 brothers play together. The band will always be impacted by their domestic issues.
 
#30
An update...

Interestingly, TBK quit the band last night.

This week I've had a peridontal abscess all week long, and I didn't know it. My dentist didn't diagnose it on Monday and I was already in serious pain then. On Friday right before our show I went to an after hours dental care place. I was on painkillers and miserable, and they could have taken my jaw off if they had wanted to. They patched me up but warned me that I had a serious infection.

I went to the show Friday and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I was sweating and I was losing my grip on what was going on, fading in and out. Miraculously I played fine, apparently that comes from somewhere else in my mind that I don't know about.

Saturday I was flat worn out. I dragged myself to the show a little late, my fault, but all things considered I think it was admirable that I was getting there. Everyone but TBK asks if I'm ok and look very concerned. But the show must go on...

We start setting up the lights. TBK puts the wrong stands in the back of the stage for at least the 20th time. I am highly medicated and very frustrated. I say "no, no, those go in the front." He says "oh, I didn't know." I say, "yeah, I know, we've only done this about 100 times. Let's just move them."

TBK tells me "**** you, you're an *******, I've been waiting here for you for over an hour, I'm tired of your ****ing mouth." He grabs his one bag of items that he owns and goes outside, screaming "**** YOU!!!" at me as he walks out.

Once he's in the parking lot, he can't leave because he doesn't have a car. He hitched a ride as usual so he could drink. He starts on the cell calling his girl to come and pick him up, and she's about 45-60 minutes away.

I never stop setting up. To me, he's upset but we'll play the show. The other guys go outside, I have no idea what's said, but he agrees to come in and play the show. To me, he doesn't really have a choice after all... he has no ride and nobody that can get there soon.

Apparently sometime while I was nodding off from the medication before the show he quit. We played the show and it was just misery... I was falling apart, still playing fine, but I was just not going to make it much farther.

As of when I left last night, he has quit the band. We're supposed to talk about what we're going to do about it after the dust settles a bit. I asked if we should wait to see if he'll reconsider and was told that he's not going to reconsider. I didn't tell him anything else because by this point I was just done, physically and mentally. I didn't want a fistfight or anything else at 3:30am to finish off my week, on top of the fact that my jaw is still very infected and I'm just beat.

I guess we'll see what happens now.
 
#32
invader3k said:
Why would you possibly want to see if he reconsiders at this point? I think he gave you a gift horse. You should take it.
Click to expand...

Yes, if he stays quit, it's a gift. If he decides that he wants to patch it up, I'm not sure what everyone else's feelings would be about that since we haven't discussed what to do.

We've expressed that we have desire to move forward, just the fine points of who and how haven't been discussed because I think everyone is still trying to let it sink in what exactly happened.
 
#34
Phantasm said:
* * * The only answer I can give is that I've bent over backwards, done things I didn't ever want to do, and tried to treat a lot of these people with kindness. I've tried to take the high road. I try to distance myself, I try to not get involved.
Click to expand...

Phantasm said:
As of when I left last night, he has quit the band. We're supposed to talk about what we're going to do about it after the dust settles a bit. I asked if we should wait to see if he'll reconsider and was told that he's not going to reconsider.
Click to expand...

You present a cautionary tale: you've obviously thought enough about this to put everything together in the essay that started this thread, but you are always cutting slack for the Band Killers you work with. Although not specifically with regard to booze/drugs, you are in fact being one of the enablers you complain about in item 7 of your list. The reason most Band Killers stick around long enough to kill bands is that most people haven't thought things through sufficiently to see them for what they are---but you DO, but you still are willing to work with them. When someone reveals themselves as a Band Killer, that should be it: out they go, or you should bail on the doomed band. And, for the love of God, if the Band Killer "quits" (even as a dramatic gesture intending to come back, which probably happens often) YOU should not be the one speculating about whether they will come back and what will happen then; the response should be, "He quit? Great, he's an ***hole. I hope he doesn't think he's going to be able to come back, because I for one will not stand for it."
 
#35
Well, sure enough - he wants to come back.

The terms?

- No apology on his part
- He doesn't have to set up anymore
- He wants to stay out of my way

I guess it's time to quit. All the talk is about gigs and money and not people. Even though it's not in the best interest of the band long term, they want to play the gigs and take the money.

I need to suffer so they can be happy. I think I've towed that line for a long time already.
 
#38
troy mcclure said:
Am I a bandkiller?
I am the member trying to make us more professional so we can get to the next level... ($600 gigs vs $400 gigs).
Click to expand...

Is that what everyone else wants?

What tactics are you using to get there?

Are you making a list of things that everyone else needs to do, or are you assuming a lot of the responsibility?

Who's paying for it? (PA, Lights, Upgrades, etc.)


To make it easier, if you're doing a lot of talking and not a lot of doing, you could be TBK.
 
#40
Phantasm said:
I guess it's time to quit. All the talk is about gigs and money and not people. Even though it's not in the best interest of the band long term, they want to play the gigs and take the money.
Click to expand...

If these other guys can't already see that he's TBK - and especially if they can see it but are in denial - then whether you stay or you leave is ultimately a moot point. Because either way that band is doomed... :rollno:

MM
 

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