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Define "Jamming" Please

S

snow_storm

Apr 14, 2006
31
0
Texas
www.myspace.com
#1
Hey.:help:
I've been playing for about 10 mos. and have been in countless little fun bands with my friends and two serious ones.

Anyway, I was wondering: When you guys play in your bands and songs are already written beforehand that you need to learn(in my case), do you just play what's suggested, or are you expected to come up with your part all on your own? Are you a bad bass player if you're no good at writing songs? (FYI: I can play pretty much anything, but I'm lost in the creative process.)I'm generally happy as long as I get to play. I don't care who wrote it.

Also I'm confused on what "Jamming" is. Is it improv., or is it when everyone agrees to learn a song and then meet to play it? I don't really get it. Is band practice considered jamming?
 
#8
Its better to create your own bassline so you participate in the song making process, IMHO. Just listen to the song without the bass line, then sing one on top of the song. transcribe what you sang on your bass, and there you go, a bass line :)

Remember, creating a bass line is like creating any melody on any instrument (pretty much anyway). All you need to do is feel the music, and just sing something on top of it which you think would complement it nicely. You should come up with it without having to think about it. Start with root notes if you're having trouble, and build around that.
 
#9
lateralus423 said:
When i first joined my band i just learned what the guitarist did to get a feel then i added my own bits onto it. If your no good at making your own lines, no worries root noting isnt bad. And jamming just means playing with a friend having fun usually.
Click to expand...

thats bascally what i've been doing what the poeple i jam with. then any spot where i can throw in a little something extra i do
 
#10
Munjibunga said:
jamming=wanking

Don't do it.
Click to expand...

mmmmmmmmnope.

Jamming, as I interpret the word, is a 'hip' way of saying improvising. It is taking a general idea and evolving it musically. The Blues, Bluegrass, Jazz and many other forms of music rely heavily on musicians' ability to jam.

Take 12-bar blues as an example. The band kicks it off and runs the 12-bars with the main motive (the melody/hook) in play. Then the song opens up for 'jamming' or 'improvisation' where the musicians take turns creating spontaneous interpretations of the motive - they jam on it or improvise over it.

Jamming is one of the best ways to teach yourself how to pay attention to what is going on around you musically. It teaches you to not go within yourself and disconnect from the band, focusing solely on your part, rather it sharpens your ears and teaches you to really hear what everyone is doing. The best jams evolve off of what each musician tosses out there. The guitar player hears what the singer did and emulates it with his own spin. You then take what the guitar player did and reinvent pieces of it yourself. On and on.

It also teaches you the value of space - getting out of each other's way. When someone is jamming, the others should be supporting his jam. They should be paying attention to the direction he is going and respond with proper musical support.

By all means... learn how to jam.

snow_storm said:
...Also I'm confused on what "Jamming" is. Is it improv., or is it when everyone agrees to learn a song and then meet to play it? I don't really get it. Is band practice considered jamming?
Click to expand...

The word 'Jamming' can be change based on the context.

  • "Hey, man, we were really jamming last night!" - could mean 'we were really playing well'. Not necessarily 'we were improvising'.
  • "Let's jam tomorrow..." - could mean to get together to go over a bunch of covers or originals and has nothing to do with improvising.
  • "Some guys want to get together for a jam session." - this very well could mean a group wants to gather and improvise.

So it does depend on the context.
 
#11
tZer said:
The word 'Jamming' can be change based on the context.

  • "Hey, man, we were really jamming last night!" - could mean 'we were really playing well'. Not necessarily 'we were improvising'.
  • "Let's jam tomorrow..." - could mean to get together to go over a bunch of covers or originals and has nothing to do with improvising.
  • "Some guys want to get together for a jam session." - this very well could mean a group wants to gather and improvise.

So it does depend on the context.
Click to expand...
Then there's the usage:
"I'm going to see a Jam band at the club tonight." That would mean you're gong to see a bunch of wankers. :eek: :D :D
 
#12
Munjibunga said:
jamming=wanking

Don't do it.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first part,

I disagree with the second part.

an example of jamming=wanking is Phish.

They get into long drawn out jams and sometimes it just gets annoying and I get the feeling of anxiety cause they never take it to the next level and develop a jam, they are just perpetually stuck in 'wanking' their instruments and bores the crap out of me. Now other bands that jam (RHCP for instance) morph the song as they go into these long jams. Listen to the song Sex Maniac or something like that by RHCP, the name of it skips my mind at the moment and I'm not about to go looking it up at work because the lyrics are pretty explicit... but they do a great job of jamming at the end of that song.
 
#13
Ok, I conceed the jam-band version of jamming... that can get tedious and it pretty much requires that the audience be 'altered' in order for them to get into that sort of thing... So I agree that when 'jamming' is used in reference to the jam-band thing... it is wanking... Sometimes it is cool wanking, but wanking nonetheless...

EDIT: Ok, and I actually retract my previous post. Munji... sorry for the snark... I have done just a little research on 'Jamming' and it seems to be universally accepted that jamming is 'free-form' playing and is 'mostly for the benefit of the musicians'. It is not necessarily 'improvising' as in what is done during structured jazz or blues songs - it is more of a free, unstructured thing where there are no predefined rules and it evolves at the whim of the musicians.

I stand corrected!

Jamming=wanking.

I do not agree with the 'Don't do it' statement, however. I enjoy wankin... 'er jamming and see a great deal of value in it for a musician. Not so much for an audience.
 
#14
I've always distuinguished "improv" from "jamming." The difference, IMHO, is level of musicianship and whether not the playing can keep the active interest of an audience.

Anyone can jam, and starting out I think it should actually be encouraged in moderation to improve your feel, especially with the drummer. But for the most part jamming is usually over the same riff/chord progression while everyone wanks on the instruments in turn, or even at the same time. It can be fun, and an OK way to write a riff or two. And yes, many jambands are guilty of this...that's why I quit listening.

But a true improvisation can be super-wonderfully, marvelous. A good improve can morph several times before ending, or going into a real tune. For the most part, I see this as a realm of jazz musicians (with the exception of a few rock bands...Larks' Tongues era King Crimson comes to mind). They usually have to know how each other plays exceptionally well, and feed off of each other's grooves. But keeping an audience's interest is tough.


Kickin'Fruit said:
an example of jamming=wanking is Phish.

They get into long drawn out jams and sometimes it just gets annoying and I get the feeling of anxiety cause they never take it to the next level and develop a jam, they are just perpetually stuck in 'wanking' their instruments and bores the crap out of me.
Click to expand...

I used to listen to a ton of Phish, and it is an acquired taste, and if you don't like them you'll probably disregard me on this. But back in the day when they had something to prove, they did some unbelievable improv, a few of which I'll still get a hankering to listen to every once in a while. And, all 4 of those guys are absolutely amazing musicians. But for the most part, since like '96, I would consider most of it wanking. The rest of the jamband scene, for the most part, is junk.

ANYWAY, as far as playing lines goes. Start off simple and lock in with the drummer, especially the kick drum. I actually have a hard time contributing riffs in my metal band, and that's what I do. Over time, as you learn more and play together more, you'll be amazed at how your parts will change.
 
#15
lomer said:
Couldn't disagree more. I define jamming as when one or more people get together who enjoy similar music and play some covers etc... What makes you say jamming is wanking? I've never heard that before....
Click to expand...
Every time I've jammed with someone, the only thing that gets played is some insipid popular phrase over and over again, then 15 minutes of aimless noodling by a beer-drunk would-be lead guitarist. No one knows the intros or outros. It's an everlasting hell.

WRT the Allman brothers, their noodling sucks as bad as anyone else's, except their jams have beginnings and endings. I'd rather listen to Myron Floren on the accordian for two hours than jam for ten minutes.
 
#16
tZer said:
Ok, I conceed the jam-band version of jamming... that can get tedious and it pretty much requires that the audience be 'altered' in order for them to get into that sort of thing... So I agree that when 'jamming' is used in reference to the jam-band thing... it is wanking... Sometimes it is cool wanking, but wanking nonetheless...

EDIT: Ok, and I actually retract my previous post. Munji... sorry for the snark... I have done just a little research on 'Jamming' and it seems to be universally accepted that jamming is 'free-form' playing and is 'mostly for the benefit of the musicians'. It is not necessarily 'improvising' as in what is done during structured jazz or blues songs - it is more of a free, unstructured thing where there are no predefined rules and it evolves at the whim of the musicians.

I stand corrected!

Jamming=wanking.

I do not agree with the 'Don't do it' statement, however. I enjoy wankin... 'er jamming and see a great deal of value in it for a musician. Not so much for an audience.
Click to expand...
Ooops. I didn't see this before I posted above. Don't worry, you can't hurt my feelings with ones and zeros, but I am pleased to see you did get your mind right. No offense taken.
 
#17
Lots of people use the word jamming just to signify the playing of music. I personally call that playing or practicing. To me, jamming is live improv.

And Munji, I think your a very insightful cat, but I couldn't disagree more on this particular subject. I am part of a jamband, and when we jam, we really create something. Me personally, part of my job in a jam is to hold a very basic, steady groove, to allow other band members to solo over. Then, eventually, I get my turn to solo. Just knowing my keys/scales/modes allows me to solo with ease during a jam. Lots of people call that Wanking, but I don't. I think its the most pure form of creating music. Something thats spontainious, and alive. I love it.
 
#18
snow_storm said:
Hey.:help:
I've been playing for about 10 mos. and have been in countless little fun bands with my friends and two serious ones.

Anyway, I was wondering: When you guys play in your bands and songs are already written beforehand that you need to learn(in my case), do you just play what's suggested, or are you expected to come up with your part all on your own? Are you a bad bass player if you're no good at writing songs? (FYI: I can play pretty much anything, but I'm lost in the creative process.)I'm generally happy as long as I get to play. I don't care who wrote it.

Also I'm confused on what "Jamming" is. Is it improv., or is it when everyone agrees to learn a song and then meet to play it? I don't really get it. Is band practice considered jamming?
Click to expand...
Jamming=pissing time away before actually writing songs. people think their ideas are meshing together but it's just another game of follow the leader.
alot of grindcore bands just write their crap on the spot. Pig Destroyer once said in an interview that they wrote their stuff when they got into the studio. no doubt they're good, but it just goes to show what I mean
 
#19
Kickin'Fruit said:
an example of jamming=wanking is Phish.

They get into long drawn out jams and sometimes it just gets annoying and I get the feeling of anxiety cause they never take it to the next level and develop a jam, they are just perpetually stuck in 'wanking' their instruments and bores the crap out of me. Now other bands that jam (RHCP for instance) morph the song as they go into these long jams. Listen to the song Sex Maniac or something like that by RHCP, the name of it skips my mind at the moment and I'm not about to go looking it up at work because the lyrics are pretty explicit... but they do a great job of jamming at the end of that song.
Click to expand...
Have you ever listened to a Phish song all the way through? The point of the longer jams is to take the song to new places and do things that couldn't be done without first jamming the song for that amount of time.

You've got it the wrong way around. RHCP is the band that just wanks and can't take a jam to the next level. Phish revolutionized the jam scene. To say that they can't take a jam to the next level and that they just wank is, quite frankly, pretty ignorant.

Listen to any live Phish recording. I recommend Live In Brooklyn. It will completely change your perspective on them.
 
#20
While I do agree that MOST jams are very long, dawn out noodle-fests with little or no redeeming value, I have been involved with many jams that have actually been really expansive, intricate and filled with not only moments of musical excitement and challenges, but have acutally found structure, intros, outros, bridges, choruses, and so on... The key is doing it alot with the same group of musicians. You begin to learn their styles and 'go to places' and soon learn how to turn spontaneous inspiration into structured, spontanteous jams. But you can't learn to do that unless you do it and do it often.

The more you do these jams, the more you learn that you really need to 'have something to say' and not 'wait for devine intervention for extended periods of time' - If it is you on the spot, make a statement, make is clearly, don't belabor it indefinitely and make it something that someone else can elaborate on or build off of.

I also agree that subjecting an audience to extended jams is not necessarily a good thing. Some audiences are receptive to such things, but for the most part, people want something to sink their teeth into and amorphous noodles is not substantial enough for most.

Although, I now want to start a jam band and name it "Amorphous Noodles" - Munji... wanna join? ;)


(I predict a 'mmmmmmmnope' in my future...)
 

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