Defret or Replace?

[Jacobfred]

After lusting for a Tony Franklin Signature for the last five years, I've decided that it's not in the cards right now. In the next best move I ordered a Squier Pro-Tone Precision bass and am debating between two options to get the fretless Precision bass I'm craving.

1) Defret the bass - I'm not sure how realistic it is with COVID, though I've been quoted about $200 for the labor. This is the most cost effective option, but not by much. I don't want to do this myself.

2a) Replace the neck with a Fender pau ferro - this let's me keep the original neck tucked away in case I decide to sell the Pro-Tone down the road. A replacement would run $250 and tax, require a new nut, but I'm confident enough to replace a nut and do a setup. Tuners would add to cost.

2b) Go for the full monty and order a Warmoth roasted maple with ebony board fretless neck. Cost (without finish) would run $350 or so, plus tuners. Again, $50-100 on top. While I wanna keep cost down, I do believe in "buy once, cry once" and I would like the ability to safely use round-wounds on this.

So, you're in my shoes. Defret, Fender replacement, or Warmoth replacement?

 

[overit]

I voted none because you can probably get a whole fretless bass used with less hassle and cost.

 

[Jacobfred]

I voted none because you can probably get a whole fretless bass used with less hassle and cost.

I've been hunting and it's not the need of a general fretless that I'm wanting. I've had a fretless jazz bass for about 10 years now. I'm very specifically craving the fretless precision bass, which seems bout rare as hen's teeth. One that isn't the Squier version with the ebonol fretboard is rarer still. Even if I go with the Warmoth, my total cost out of pocket would run about $600. However, I agree I could find a general fretless for less, but that's not what I want.

 

[eastcoasteddie]

If you’re really trying to pinch pennies:

Glarry Fretless vs. Fender Tony Franklin Precision

but me personally, I probably wouldn’t want one of those Glarry’s because I would want to replace everything on it, all hardware and electronics....Which would be hard to justify because of what it is...

I went ahead and got a roasted maple/ebony fretless neck from Warmoth for myself when I decided I needed a fretless. The original Squier neck I defretted was a bit too unstable for my tastes.

 

[Jacobfred]

If you’re really trying to pinch pennies:

Glarry Fretless vs. Fender Tony Franklin Precision

but me personally, I probably wouldn’t want one of those Glarry’s because I would want to replace everything on it, all hardware and electronics....Which would be hard to justify because of what it is...

I went ahead and got a roasted maple/ebony fretless neck from Warmoth for myself when I decided I needed a fretless. The original Squier neck I defretted was a bit too unstable for my tastes.

I saw that this morning and actually briefly considered it, but came to the same opinion as you. If I replaced hardware, pickups, got it inspected and set up by a pro, then I may as well just get something I like.

Hence the Pro-Tone. I've owned one before and really liked it, sold it, and haven't came across too many at a reasonable price since. Today was lucky, found one on GC mislabeled as a Vintage Modified and grabbed it for $250 shipped.

So maybe I should clarify this position: it's not that money is extremely tight right now, but I don't see myself spending $1000 or more on a used Tony Franklin. I want a fretless Precision bass for a mid-tier cost for a reliable and quality instrument. Mostly weighing my options and could use some input considering quality for cost.

I really appreciate your perspective on the replacement vs defret though. That instability is my concern. Did you wind up applying any finish to your roasted maple/ebony when you ordered it?

 

[overit]

Sounds like the Warmoth is really what you want from your last reply. If you really like the rest of the bass - which sounds like you do - then seems like the best option.

However, hopefully you don’t go down the rabbit hole of modding everything and ending up with a bass that is only a few hundred dollars less than a used TF.

 

[DoctorZee]

I'm having a similar debate with myself. I came into possession of a cheap bass and am considering modding it into a fretless. I think the only reason to defret instead of replace the neck is if you have concerns about a new standard-sized neck fitting in the pocket. I'm planning to remove the neck on mine and measure everything before I make a decision. (Disclaimer: I'm not a luthier, this is just my own thought process)

 

[BurningSkies]

200$ sounds great...for a bass that you probably won't enjoy playing.

I'm a guy with a bass that was professionally converted...twice. The first time cost me around 300$ and was nothing but a headache and not pleasurable to play. The second go-round was more...they had to cut out all the inlays re-inlay, true the neck correctly, refinish the neck, etc. Much of that should have been done the first time around and I asked for it to be done properly and it wasn't.

 

[Reedt2000]

What about a Mighty Mite neck? Could save you some $ and get you where you wanna be. The ones I've seen have been decent quality and punch above their weight class (IMHO).

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acc...ement-neck-with-a-fretless-ebonol-fingerboard

 

[Jacobfred]

Sounds like the Warmoth is really what you want from your last reply. If you really like the rest of the bass - which sounds like you do - then seems like the best option.

However, hopefully you don’t go down the rabbit hole of modding everything and ending up with a bass that is only a few hundred dollars less than a used TF.

Ultimately I think you're right (and worse I think I knew it all along). That is the only concern that I really have about this route, but with the history I have with the Pro-Tone I'm fairly confident that I will like the tone right away. And I suppose on the bright side, should I not love the Pro-Tone I would still be in possession of an excellent fretless neck for another project.

 

[Jacobfred]

200$ sounds great...for a bass that you probably won't enjoy playing.

I'm a guy with a bass that was professionally converted...twice. The first time cost me around 300$ and was nothing but a headache and not pleasurable to play. The second go-round was more...they had to cut out all the inlays re-inlay, true the neck correctly, refinish the neck, etc. Much of that should have been done the first time around and I asked for it to be done properly and it wasn't.

That's what I was waiting for. I see a lot of conversion jobs and even if they look clean I get apprehensive. I trust the guys to make it right if they mess up and not throw additional charges for their own shortcuts (if I understood your story correctly), but I can't help but think ordering a designated fretless neck would bypass those frustrations.

What about a Mighty Mite neck? Could save you some $ and get you where you wanna be. The ones I've seen have been decent quality and punch above their weight class (IMHO).

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acc...ement-neck-with-a-fretless-ebonol-fingerboard

The Mighty Mites are decent! I had previously owned a parts bass built by a local shop owner that felt decent and sounded good, but I'd rather not get the ebonol after owning a fretless jazz with that material already. I could be swayed if I knew, aside from lemons, that it was a better playing neck than the Fender.

 

[Killing Floor]

Throw on a replacement neck. Fender or Warmouth or other.

 

[BurningSkies]

That's what I was waiting for. I see a lot of conversion jobs and even if they look clean I get apprehensive. I trust the guys to make it right if they mess up and not throw additional charges for their own shortcuts (if I understood your story correctly), but I can't help but think ordering a designated fretless neck would bypass those frustrations.



The Mighty Mites are decent! I had previously owned a parts bass built by a local shop owner that felt decent and sounded good, but I'd rather not get the ebonol after owning a fretless jazz with that material already. I could be swayed if I knew, aside from lemons, that it was a better playing neck than the Fender.

Have a serious pro do the work, or get a new neck. Neither of these options will be 200$ I actually HAD a pro do it the first time, but I don't think he really took to the project and/or didn't focus on some of the things (precision fretboard truing, etc.) Also since the frets were gone, the neck needed to be shimmed to get the bridge down low enough (later taken care of differently by the second time I had it worked on), but the first guy didn't feel comfortable shimming the neck, so the action was not at all where I wanted it... In the end, was it worth it? Yeah, it was but I turned a bass I paid $900 (used) into a $3K bass by the time I was done.

 

[JRA]

So, you're in my shoes. Defret, Fender replacement, or Warmoth replacement?

all of your choices will get you what you want if you really know what the end result is supposed to be. the differences are all about the cost, and since you're not that hung up on the cost, and since you won't be doing the work: the warmoth neck build will give you the most options from the factory to your door.

folks who can't rationalize putting money into an ax because of lower MSRP are the same folks who go through a bunch of axes based on looks and/or peer pressure. crowd-think is not the way to get serious about a musical instrument.

sounds to me like you already know what you want and how to get there: you don't need approval from this mess/heap to proceed --- good luck!

 

[luciens]

Having done all of the above (in one form or other), my vote is also none of the above:
- Defrets are a lot of work to get done right and even if the end result is good, there's a low but still fairly decent chance that it won't stay that way. The wood in that fingerboard got used to having frets in it; once you take them out, that pressure is relieved or replaced with a slightly different pressure. So 6 months to a year down the road, you might start getting buzzes here and there. In other words, it could become a maintenance headache. I've done a couple defrets and this has happened on some of the nicer defrets I did.
- Modding a bass is generally less cost effective than selling unmodded and putting those funds towards the desired bass. Meaning, the incremental upgrade path to the desired bass is nearly always more expensive and painful than the immediate gratification method of just gritting your teeth and buying the desired bass up front. Pawn the kid and family dog and just get it overwith is usually the cheapest route.

As for a fretless Pbass, I did exactly that; pawned the family and went with a Tony Franklin myself about a month ago. Yeah I miss the kid and the wife and the family dog and yeah the kid will grow up without a dad and the wife will have to find another guy and another place to live, but - I got the TF. I just can't say enough good about it, so I won't go on and on. The good thing about doing the desired bass from the get-go is you don't have to buy it again later. And then again a little later, and then again and... Mine killed all the GAS for a P bass and I haven't shopped for P basses since.

So that'd be my recommendation. The most important one being try to avoid the temptation to buy cheap and upgrade if you can. Its possible to come out ok doing it that way, but it's kind of rare. Just ID the good bass that you actually want and go about figuring out how to get that one. It really does work out better in the long run.

L

 

[eastcoasteddie]

Did you wind up applying any finish to your roasted maple/ebony when you ordered it?

I have applied mineral oil to it twice (since 2018) but really don’t need to do anything...it’s all personal preference.

I have read on the Warmoth forums that some people try to replicate the EBMM wax finish.

 

[HG1180]

Buy used.

 

[Jacobfred]

Having done all of the above (in one form or other), my vote is also none of the above:
- Defrets are a lot of work to get done right and even if the end result is good, there's a low but still fairly decent chance that it won't stay that way. The wood in that fingerboard got used to having frets in it; once you take them out, that pressure is relieved or replaced with a slightly different pressure. So 6 months to a year down the road, you might start getting buzzes here and there. In other words, it could become a maintenance headache. I've done a couple defrets and this has happened on some of the nicer defrets I did.
- Modding a bass is generally less cost effective than selling unmodded and putting those funds towards the desired bass. Meaning, the incremental upgrade path to the desired bass is nearly always more expensive and painful than the immediate gratification method of just gritting your teeth and buying the desired bass up front. Pawn the kid and family dog and just get it overwith is usually the cheapest route.

As for a fretless Pbass, I did exactly that; pawned the family and went with a Tony Franklin myself about a month ago. Yeah I miss the kid and the wife and the family dog and yeah the kid will grow up without a dad and the wife will have to find another guy and another place to live, but - I got the TF. I just can't say enough good about it, so I won't go on and on. The good thing about doing the desired bass from the get-go is you don't have to buy it again later. And then again a little later, and then again and... Mine killed all the GAS for a P bass and I haven't shopped for P basses since.

So that'd be my recommendation. The most important one being try to avoid the temptation to buy cheap and upgrade if you can. Its possible to come out ok doing it that way, but it's kind of rare. Just ID the good bass that you actually want and go about figuring out how to get that one. It really does work out better in the long run.

L

I hear you. Fortunately the kid is a little too young to pawn and I'd hate to meet the people that want to buy a 2 month old on the black market. I've already got the Pro-Tone on the way, so I'll check it out and make sure it looks good and sounds good first before ordering the Warmoth. If the Pro-Tone doesn't show up looking and sounding great then we'll send it back and have a chat with the wife.

all of your choices will get you what you want if you really know what the end result is supposed to be. the differences are all about the cost, and since you're not that hung up on the cost, and since you won't be doing the work: the warmoth neck build will give you the most options from the factory to your door.

folks who can't rationalize putting money into an ax because of lower MSRP are the same folks who go through a bunch of axes based on looks and/or peer pressure. crowd-think is not the way to get serious about a musical instrument.

sounds to me like you already know what you want and how to get there: you don't need approval from this mess/heap to proceed --- good luck!

I agree, my mind is made up. I have no issue putting money into making something what I want and to be fair, the Tony Franklin is just the closest to what I want out of the box. With price rises over the years it's become less of a dream bass and more of a quick solution. I messed up not grabbing one when they were regularly around for $1000, but it makes the notion of a Warmoth build or partial upgrade more realistic.

 

[Silky Johnson]

After lusting for a Tony Franklin Signature for the last five years, I've decided that it's not in the cards right now. In the next best move I ordered a Squier Pro-Tone Precision bass and am debating between two options to get the fretless Precision bass I'm craving.

1) Defret the bass - I'm not sure how realistic it is with COVID, though I've been quoted about $200 for the labor. This is the most cost effective option, but not by much. I don't want to do this myself.

2a) Replace the neck with a Fender pau ferro - this let's me keep the original neck tucked away in case I decide to sell the Pro-Tone down the road. A replacement would run $250 and tax, require a new nut, but I'm confident enough to replace a nut and do a setup. Tuners would add to cost.

2b) Go for the full monty and order a Warmoth roasted maple with ebony board fretless neck. Cost (without finish) would run $350 or so, plus tuners. Again, $50-100 on top. While I wanna keep cost down, I do believe in "buy once, cry once" and I would like the ability to safely use round-wounds on this.

So, you're in my shoes. Defret, Fender replacement, or Warmoth replacement?

Full Monty bud, as long as you don't expect to recoup the expenses...it should be a sweet bass though

 

[nukebuick]

Back in 1978 I went to see Weather Report, went home that night and tore out the frets on my 74 P. A little plastic wood to fill the slots, sanded down the board a bit and shot it with lacquer. Still going pretty strong. I'm not advocating this approach, but it worked for me in the dark ages. Of course, I had to buy another fretted P later to cover jobs where the fretless wasn't quite the ticket. But I still enjoy playing it.