Demeter Club

[bucephylus]

Hmmm...another twist.

That’s surprising to me, because James seemed to be indicating the 12AT7 was optimal for output to the Jensen. Sure would be better if he were on this forum from time to time to clear up these kinds of Q’s.

Looking at @The Nameless posts, my sense is that he was referring to the 201, and that the ‘s’ in his first post was plural, not the model. Was JD making the 201s 30 years ago? Didn’t think so.

 

[The Nameless]

Hmmm...another twist.

That’s surprising to me, because James seemed to be indicating the 12AT7 was optimal for output to the Jensen. Sure would be better if he were on this forum from time to time to clear up these kinds of Q’s.

Looking at @The Nameless posts, my sense is that he was referring to the 201, and that the ‘s’ in his first post was plural, not the model. Was JD making the 201s 30 years ago? Didn’t think so.

I remember pretty clearly my first unit did have "S" after VTBP-201. I did mean plural in my use, however, I remember the first one I had because of the circumstances of my acquiring it, and in my research after reading the BP Shootout of preamps, there were slight differences in mine. My first did have the Jensen out. It was mentioned in the article, so I checked mine. Theirs, or one I read about, had only one preamp out. Mine had two. I assumed the "S" meant Stereo. Because mine had two outputs for the power amp. Part of me remembers this because other preamps I was trying at the time, Alembic, Tubeworks and Ashley, had only one output, I had a stereo power amp, and wasn't sure how to get two sides of my amp to work with only one preamp out.

Now, I could be totally remembering incorrectly. That was a long time ago. I was a kid. But I do remember all the circumstances that was surrounding the particular memory, so I may have been only assuming.

What does the "S" stand for in the VTBP-201S stand for? And, all my units except one were old style, like mine currently, with the vertical board on which the tubes sit. Are the "S" models designed with two 12ax7a tubes in mind, as ALL my units including the newer version came to me with, or, were mine loaded incorrectly? I've never owned a 12at7 before Never saw any of my preamps with them, never knew that any VTBP series used em. Forgive my ignorance. I've been playin a long time. I thot I knew. But there are always things to learn. I'd like to know exactly what I'm doing.

 

[Matt R]

What does the "S" stand for in the VTBP-201S stand for?

My guess ?
VTBP 201 -1.5 RU space, black face unit
VTBP 201S -1.0 RU space, silver face unit

 

[murphy]

I've been running my VTBP-201 into my mesa subways power amp....and that is a very special preamp..love the tone

 

[bassbooty]

Hmmm...another twist.

That’s surprising to me, because James seemed to be indicating the 12AT7 was optimal for output to the Jensen. Sure would be better if he were on this forum from time to time to clear up these kinds of Q’s.

Looking at @The Nameless posts, my sense is that he was referring to the 201, and that the ‘s’ in his first post was plural, not the model. Was JD making the 201s 30 years ago? Didn’t think so.

I asked Demeter about the tube situation in the 201:

 

[bucephylus]

I asked Demeter about the tube situation in the 201:

View attachment 3573137

I just called James and discussed the V1 and V2 specifications. This is more or less what he told me:

ALL VTBP-201 class self standing preamps were originally designed for 12AX7 tubes in both V1 and V2 positions. He reiterated that V1 produces the primary tonal character.

What has changed is that many VTBP-201 units are now being produced with or retrofitted with the Minnie 800D power stage in the same chassis to create a self standing amplifier. For these units, the V2 needs to be a 12AT7, because V2 is driving a Jensen transformer coupling to the 250ASX2 amplification stage. A 12AX7 in this architecture does not produce sufficient current to drive the power stage. Hence, the change to 12AT7.

James also said that putting a 12AT7 into the self standing preamp would have negligible effect on the output characteristics vs the intended 12AX7, because the biasing would still produce the same output, essentially underutilizing the 12AT7 current capacity.

Hope that clears things up.

BTW, James also said he would have a VTBP-201 preamp in a Minnie chassis, similar to the Bass400 without a power section but with both tubes, at the Winter NAMM.

 

[dirkcalloway]

I just called James and discussed the V1 and V2 specifications. This is more or less what he told me:

ALL VTBP-201 class self standing preamps were originally designed for 12AX7 tubes in both V1 and V2 positions. He reiterated that V1 produces the primary tonal character.

What has changed is that many VTBP-201 units are now being produced with or retrofitted with the Minnie 800D power stage in the same chassis to create a self standing amplifier. For these units, the V2 needs to be a 12AT7, because V2 is driving a Jensen transformer coupling to the 250ASX2 amplification stage. A 12AX7 in this architecture does not produce sufficient current to drive the power stage. Hence, the change to 12AT7.

James also said that putting a 12AT7 into the self standing preamp would have negligible effect on the output characteristics vs the intended 12AX7, because the biasing would still produce the same output, essentially underutilizing the 12AT7 current capacity.

Hope that clears things up.

BTW, James also said he would have a VTBP-201 preamp in a Minnie chassis, similar to the Bass400 without a power section but with both tubes, at the Winter NAMM.

Thank you!

 

[bassbooty]

I've come full circle. My first piece of Demeter gear was the VTBP-201s preamp, which I used with various power amps as the brain of my rig from 2000 - 2009. After having owned: Bass 600, Bass 400, VTBP-201s-800D and VTBP-M-800D heads in the past several years, I just acquired my 2nd VTBP-201s preamp a couple weeks ago. It's currently my only Demeter piece. I'm using it with the power section of my TecAmp Black Jag 500 head and along with my TecAmp M212 Classic cab, it's really an amazing sounding combination. I think IME this preamp is still my personal favorite sounding Demeter piece. Although anything built by Demeter is killer!

 

[bucephylus]

Go with what you know. Can’t go wrong with Demeter. My family may bury me with my 1 1/2 space.

 

[J.Wolf]

Played my HB600 (thanks booty!!) with my new to me Glockenklang NEO 212, and I honestly dont think I have heard a rig with better, more balanced bass tone than that combination. All night I was trying to think of what I could possibly want to hear differently and couldnt come up with anything. So satisfying, and it makes me grin that the HB600 is decades old and still kills pretty much everything. Will try to take some pics soon.

 

[lowendrv]

I went wine tasting a few months ago and picked up a great little amp . I can't find a bad tone out of it .

 

[bucephylus]

FWIW, I’ve gone back to a 12AX7 tube in my Bass400. I like it better in that amp than the 5751. Initially, I was using an Amperex Bugle Boy NOS 12AX7 (which IS a great tube); but, recently went through the modern commercially available tubes, such as the JJ, EH (which James uses), and the Tung Sol. Of those, I definitely like the EH the best. Of course. James has great ears. So, the EH is in my Bass400, and will probably stay there.

 

[bassbooty]

I've come full circle. My first piece of Demeter gear was the VTBP-201s preamp, which I used with various power amps as the brain of my rig from 2000 - 2009. After having owned: Bass 600, Bass 400, VTBP-201s-800D and VTBP-M-800D heads in the past several years, I just acquired my 2nd VTBP-201s preamp a couple weeks ago. It's currently my only Demeter piece. I'm using it with the power section of my TecAmp Black Jag 500 head and along with my TecAmp M212 Classic cab, it's really an amazing sounding combination. I think IME this preamp is still my personal favorite sounding Demeter piece. Although anything built by Demeter is killer!

View attachment 3585958

Update to my Demeter VTBP-201s rig:
I just picked up a used Stewart World 600 class AB power amp which weighs 10 pounds and provides a really detailed high end and lots of clear low end thump. I recall the Stewart World Series was one of the amps that earned a Top Tone award in Bass Player Magazine’s power amp shootout in the nineties and IMO that was well deserved. Sounds killer with the 201s and can be found used for a great deal.

 

[Brad Maestas]

I bought a VTBP-201s back around 2001 and still use it all the time. I gigged it for a short time but I've used it on every recording I've ever done including sessions where I was the engineer or producer. It was only this year when I received a Noble pre that I tracked with something else.

 

[murphy]

Bass Player Magazine’s power amp shootout in the nineties

It was this one I believe on the shootout...I bought one ...but fan was loud so I returned it....Should have kept it

It is Class H

https://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/10529-StewartAudioWorld21DataSheet.pdf

 

[murphy]

Update to my Demeter 201s rig: I just picked up a used Stewart World 600 class AB power amp which weighs 10 pounds and provides a really detailed high end and lots of clear low end thump. I recall the Stewart World Series was one of the amps that earned a Top Tone award in Bass Player Magazine’s power amp shootout in the nineties and IMO that was well deserved. Sounds killer with the 201s and can be found used for a great deal.

View attachment 3632534

Yours is definitely Class AB

Frequency Response (+0, –0.5 dB, 1W) Power Bandwidth (+0, –3 dB) THD+N Damping Factor Slew Rate Input Sensitivity Standard Voltage Gain Input impedance (Balanced / Unbalanced) Class Input Connectors Output Connectors Power Supply Cooling Controls LED Indicators Construction Dimensions (height, width, depth) Weight Warranty Architect’s & Engineering Specifications The World 600 power amplifier shall consist of 2 channels. It shall deliver a minimum of 110W at 8 Ohms and, both channels driven, 20 Hz—20 kHz, < .1% THD. The amplifier shall be convection cooled with no fan required. Amplifiers using fan cooling will not be accepted. The amplifier shall have circuitry to protect itself and the speaker loads from output short circuits, DC voltage on the outputs, and thermal overload. The amplifier shall have a voltage gain of 40 X (32dB), and an input Sensitivity of 1V for rated power at 4 Ohms output. The hum and noise level shall be >100 dB below rated output “A” weighted.


The amplifier shall have a class AB output stage and a high–speed Switch Mode Power Supply.

Non Switch Mode Power Supplies will not be accepted. The frequency response shall be greater than 15 Hz to 45 kHz +0, – 3 dB at rated power. The amplifier shall operate on 120VAC. The front panel shall contain, for each channel, a knob adjusted, detented level control, LED indicators for -20 dB signal present, Clip, and Power. The power switch shall be a power supply enable switch. The Rear panel shall contain a captive AC line cord. The rear panel input terminals shall be both 3 pin XLR, 1/4” TRS. The amplifier dimensions shall be 19” (48.3 cm) wide, 1.75” (4.6 cm) high, and 15.3” (38.9) deep. The World 600 shall weigh 10 lbs (4.5 kg). The amplifier shall be designated the Stewart Audio Model World 600. 110 W x 2 @ 8 Ohms 190 W x 2 @ 4 Ohms 400 W x 1 @ 8 Ohms Bridged 20 Hz—20 kHz 15 Hz—45 kHz >100dB >500 30V/microsecond 1V (0 dBV) 40X (32dB) 20k Ohms / 10k Ohms AB Rear Panel 3 pin XLR, 1/4” TRS Rear Panel 6 Gauge, 5–Way Binding Post, 1/4” TRS High Speed Switching Convection–Cooling (No Fans)Power on/off, Channel Gain Power, Signal present & Clip Steel & Aluminum Chassis 1.75” x 19” x 15.3” 4.6 cm x 48.3 cm x 38.9 cm 10 lbs (4.5 kg) 3 years

https://www.fdwcorp.com/common/files/10531-StewartAudioWorld600DataSheet.pdf

 

[Bassboy 43]

Hey Demeter fanboys! So I play a Pedulla Pentabuzz as my main axe all fingers an hardly any treble.
Just love the fat warm round thumpyness and singing wah from my fretless from my SVT-CL but just am so done hauling that poopie anywhere anymore. Looking at all these Class D amps (never had one or played thru one and can't really try any because of where I live) but am looking at the VTBP-M-800D as well as AG700 and some others. I play mostly funk/fusion but it gets heavy and loud too.
Looking for thoughts on the VTBP-M-800D vs other Class D heads that would suit me and make me happy like the SVT-CL does (except for when I have to carry it ugh)

 

[Matt R]

Looking for thoughts on the VTBP-M-800D vs other Class D heads that would suit me and make me happy like the SVT-CL does (except for when I have to carry it ugh)

I own many of Demeter's amps, along with a couple of SLM built Ampeg SVT II Pro heads. My be all and all bass head is the VTBP 201S 800D. I hope you have a chance to check one out. Please reach out if you happen to be in SoCal.
Best of luck.
Matt

 

[murphy]

I own many of Demeter's amps, along with a couple of SLM built Ampeg SVT II Pro heads

Wow...Now you have my attention

I have just purchased a Quilter BB800 to use as power for my VTBP201 Demeter into input on front of Quilter...but have only tried the combo at home...it is awesome
Will try with band tonight before final judgent...The VYBP201 paired so well with the Magellans power amp

 

[bucephylus]

Hey Demeter fanboys! So I play a Pedulla Pentabuzz as my main axe all fingers an hardly any treble.
Just love the fat warm round thumpyness and singing wah from my fretless from my SVT-CL but just am so done hauling that poopie anywhere anymore. Looking at all these Class D amps (never had one or played thru one and can't really try any because of where I live) but am looking at the VTBP-M-800D as well as AG700 and some others. I play mostly funk/fusion but it gets heavy and loud too.
Looking for thoughts on the VTBP-M-800D vs other Class D heads that would suit me and make me happy like the SVT-CL does (except for when I have to carry it ugh)

My $0.019 is that you might be wise to try before you buy.

I’ve been using Demeter VTBP-201 circuits in my signal chain for about the last 15 years. They are exactly my sound. Which is accurate with good preamp tube spatial imaging.

But, they are clean, and don’t readily do the overdriven furriness thing. So, you would probably like them, if you mainly use the SVT in clean mode. If you are overdriving your SVT, then there might be better alternatives. The Demeter will definitely do the clean SVT vibe.

Players who like a bit of furriness seem to be happier with either the Mesa WD-800 or the Bergantino Forte HP.

Referring to fretless, my favorite fretless vibe was running a J into an Acoustic 360. For a while, I used a Pedulla ThunderBuzz 5. These days, I am playing a Zon Sonus Special 5F. I guess what I’m saying is that if you are going for a Mark Egan kind of tone, the Demeter will get you there. If you are going for more of a Jack Bruce tone, then you might also want to check out the Mesa and/or Bergantino. GL