Desperation Tapewounds... or, the Ohana Bass Uke Problem...

[Nickweissmusic]

I love my Ohana OBU-22 FLM, I use it all the time, but it’s annoying to record because there’s a “squeak” in the attack. The stock strings are roundwound phosphor bronze strings that really like to stick to your fingers, hence the squeak, and it’s very hard to compress/eq out. Fingerease and other products haven’t worked well enough. I’ve tried a few sets of strings, the last set of flatwounds I tried were Dogal short scale flatwounds, looked promising and I’d read they were “short for their size,” but they were still too long, the E string just wouldn’t settle in right. Ohana only sells the roundwounds; there’s a guy who makes flatwounds for them for over $100 with a 10 week lead time, I might eventually get THAT desperate, but I’m still holding out hope. Yes I’ve spent more on strings than $100 at this point, i’m just really hoping the end solution to this problem isn’t strings that cost over $100 that take over two months to receive.

Anywho, it just popped into my head to try shrink wrap tubing, and for the most part, it worked! The G was affected too much so I removed it, (I will try smaller gauge shrink wrap if I can find it, I guess now I’m on the search for the perfect shrink wrap…), but the E A and D sound great, no squeaky attack, no ill effect on intonation or anything.

So there you go, not sure if I’m the inventor of this method or not, but if you’ve got the sticky string attack disease, I got your cure. Also, if anyone knows of flats for a 24.5” scale bass, that either cost less than $100, or take less than 10 weeks to deliver, or maybe even both (one can dream), please let me know. Thanks!

 

[JimmyM]

So they're only shrinkwrapped from the base of the neck to the bridge? I'd think if you were looking to get rid of string squeak you'd want to do the entire string, no?

 

[Nickweissmusic]

So they're only shrinkwrapped from the base of the neck to the bridge? I'd think if you were looking to get rid of string squeak you'd want to do the entire string, no?

Good question- the usual round wound left hand squeak isn’t the problem, it’s there but sounds “normal.” There’s a harmonic that happens on every attack with the right hand that sounds weird. Totally gone with this method. I suppose you could do this to more of the string, maybe the whole thing, but plenty more physics to worry about at that point.

 

[michael_t]

I'd think if you were looking to get rid of string squeak you'd want to do the entire string, no?

Good question- the usual round wound left hand squeak isn’t the problem, it’s there but sounds “normal.” There’s a harmonic that happens on every attack with the right hand that sounds weird.

I had the same reaction as @JimmyM when I saw the pic.

As a former acoustic guitar player, it was the left-hand screeches that drove me crazy. Never experienced the "squeaky attack" you speak of.

An interesting experiment nonetheless.

 

[HaphAsSard]

@Nickweissmusic :
did you mean Galli ukulele bass flatwounds? Or have Dogal also started making them?
If the former,* and assuming you got the 23" scale length version from Strings by Mail (the standard length version would be too short, in all likelihood), you may consider threading the strings though short pieces of stiff tubing and install them from the soundhole, so that part of the string length is tucked inside the body while the other end reaches the tuner tapered. (Bridge pins could then be put back in place for aesthetic reasons, if they don't interfere with the tubes.)

The only other guitar-scale bass flatwound set I'm aware of, made by La Bella for the Gold Tone MBass, is a traditional one, with steel cores (unlike the Gallis), hence not recommended for those guitar-scale acoustic bass models that come with stock nylon-core rounds unless one is willing to move back the bridge. However, if the Ohana uses steel-core strings natively, the La Bellas may intonate fine. According to TBer @kohanmike, who has extensive experience with this kind of instrument as well as string options, the La Bella/Gold Tone flats have a 28" winding length ball-end to silk, so they may also be too long for your basslet.

As for the DIY tapewounds, good thinking. TB members @SamanthaCay also experimented with heat shrink tubing way back when; so did @mrufino1.
I would expect adding mass to only half of the speaking length to actually create more physics problems than doing it throughout, but it is a low amount of mass after all, perhaps negligible FAIAP.


* (but also the latter)

 

[Nickweissmusic]

I had the same reaction as @JimmyM when I saw the pic.

As a former acoustic guitar player, it was the left-hand screeches that drove me crazy. Never experienced the "squeaky attack" you speak of.

An interesting experiment nonetheless.

It’s the combination of bronze round wounds and hot piezo preamp, definitely a niche problem.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

@Nickweissmusic :
did you mean Galli ukulele bass flatwounds? Or have Dogal also started making them?
If the former,* and assuming you got the 23" scale length version from Strings by Mail (the standard length version would be too short, in all likelihood), you may consider threading the strings though short pieces of stiff tubing and install them from the soundhole, so that part of the string length is tucked inside the body while the other end reaches the tuner tapered. (Bridge pins could then be put back in place for aesthetic reasons, if they don't interfere with the tubes.)

The only other guitar-scale bass flatwound set I'm aware of, made by La Bella for the Gold Tone MBass, is a traditional one, with steel cores (unlike the Gallis), hence not recommended for those guitar-scale acoustic bass models that come with stock nylon-core rounds unless one is willing to move back the bridge. However, if the Ohana uses steel-core strings natively, the La Bellas may intonate fine. According to TBer @kohanmike, who has extensive experience with this kind of instrument as well as string options, the La Bella/Gold Tone flats have a 28" winding length ball-end to silk, so they may also be too long for your basslet.

As for the DIY tapewounds, good thinking. TB members @SamanthaCay also experimented with heat shrink tubing way back when; so did @mrufino1.
I would expect adding mass to only half of the speaking length to actually create more physics problems than doing it throughout, but it is a low amount of mass after all, perhaps negligible FAIAP.


* (but also the latter)

good info, thanks, I’ve searched quite a bit but not found much help, never heard of Galli strings so I’ll have to check that out. I had read the 30” Dogals were “too short” for someone’s 30” bass so I gave them a shot, may retry with your install idea, but I may have destroyed them, that wrapping wasn’t the tightest I’ve ever seen. I’ll check out that other user’s profile as well. Thank you!

 

[HaphAsSard]

good info, thanks, I’ve searched quite a bit but not found much help, never heard of Galli strings so I’ll have to check that out. I had read the 30” Dogals were “too short” for someone’s 30” bass so I gave them a shot, may retry with your install idea, but I may have destroyed them, that wrapping wasn’t the tightest I’ve ever seen. I’ll check out that other user’s profile as well. Thank you!

Aaaah, OK, now I remember that Dogal flat debacle: a nominally 30" scale string set that turned out to be too short even for a normal short-scale electric bass. OTOH, 31+" worth of string at full winding appears to be still quite a bit longer than what the Ohana needs.

Here are some links to the sets I was referring to:

MBLS MicroBass LaBella Flat Wound Strings
^ La Bella/Gold Tone MBLS. Basically a supershort version of the Deep Talkin' Bass Flat 760FM set. Steel-on-steel, so they tend to intonate fine on minibasses whose stock string complement is steel-core. I haven't been able to ascertain if the Ohana is one of those (many others, made by Ibanez, Guild, Taylor etc., instead come with nylon-core rounds). The La Bellas are 28" long ball to silk, so they might be a smidge too long for you, and could benefit from that small tube trick. Out of stock from Gold Tone at the moment, but they're sold elsewhere too, so shop around if you're interested.

others
^ KA-BASS-FW set, made by Galli Strings (factory designation is UXB910C) for Kala. Chrome steel flatwound on a nylon core, for 23" scale instruments. The full winding length is reportedly 26" ball to silk, so they might fit on your mini bass just fine (the Invalid Link Removed would not).
Now, these are said to intonate fine on the aforementioned parlor basses that use nylon-core roundwound strings (not 100% accurate, since the flat winding does add some stiffness). If, in turn, they're installed on a steel-core-friendly guitar-scale bass, they might suffer from the opposite problem, and intonate flat. However, could the inaccuracy be within the correcting scope of just a bit heavier fretting touch? Perhaps.

Speaking of nylon-core non-rounds, here's one I did not mention above, a nylon-on-nylon tapewound set:
Invalid Link Removed
Codename UXB810, also Galli-made. (Here, too, Invalid Link Removed, standard UBass scale version exists.) Same caveats apply, regarding length (the 23" version may or may not be enough in your case) and potentially flat intonation. (Again, it depends on whether the stock strings, which you heat-shrink-wrapped, have or not a steel core.)

Short of ordering from Garry Goodman's Octave4Plus, which I'm guessing is the custom source you hinted at on your OP, the last option I'm aware of is contacting Pyramid for a custom-length version of either their Gold Flats or their 508/BT black nylon tapewound uke-bass set ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed] available for sale but in short, UBass scale only).

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Aaaah, OK, now I remember that Dogal flat debacle: a nominally 30" scale string set that turned out to be too short even for a normal short-scale electric bass. OTOH, 31+" worth of string at full winding appears to be still quite a bit longer than what the Ohana needs.

Here are some links to the sets I was referring to:

MBLS MicroBass LaBella Flat Wound Strings
^ La Bella/Gold Tone MBLS. Basically a supershort version of the Deep Talkin' Bass Flat 760FM set. Steel-on-steel, so they tend to intonate fine on minibasses whose stock string complement is steel-core. I haven't been able to ascertain if the Ohana is one of those (many others, made by Ibanez, Guild, Taylor etc., instead come with nylon-core rounds). The La Bellas are 28" long ball to silk, so they might be a smidge too long for you, and could benefit from that small tube trick. Out of stock from Gold Tone at the moment, but they're sold elsewhere too, so shop around if you're interested.

others
^ KA-BASS-FW set, made by Galli Strings (factory designation is UXB910C) for Kala. Chrome steel flatwound on a nylon core, for 23" scale instruments. The full winding length is reportedly 26" ball to silk, so they might fit on your mini bass just fine (the Invalid Link Removed would not).
Now, these are said to intonate fine on the aforementioned parlor basses that use nylon-core roundwound strings (not 100% accurate, since the flat winding does add some stiffness). If, in turn, they're installed on a steel-core-friendly guitar-scale bass, they might suffer from the opposite problem, and intonate flat. However, could the inaccuracy be within the correcting scope of just a bit heavier fretting touch? Perhaps.

Speaking of nylon-core non-rounds, here's one I did not mention above, a nylon-on-nylon tapewound set:
Invalid Link Removed
Codename UXB810, also Galli-made. (Here, too, Invalid Link Removed, standard UBass scale version exists.) Same caveats apply, regarding length (the 23" version may or may not be enough in your case) and potentially flat intonation. (Again, it depends on whether the stock strings, which you heat-shrink-wrapped, have or not a steel core.)

Short of ordering from Garry Goodman's Octave4Plus, which I'm guessing is the custom source you hinted at on your OP, the last option I'm aware of is contacting Pyramid for a custom-length version of either their Gold Flats or their 508/BT black nylon tapewound uke-bass set ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed] available for sale but in short, UBass scale only).

Thanks so much for the great info! The Ohana strings are steel core. I think I found the La Bella’s on eBay, the model number was slightly different (MBSLS, maybe a typo or alternate packaging?) but the description and price was right where it should be so hoping for the best. We shall see, they’ll be here be next week.

Yep those are the custom strings I was looking at, and may eventually be purchasing, but I haven’t surrendered yet . Will report back after the next try.

 

[mrufino1]

@Nickweissmusic :
did you mean Galli ukulele bass flatwounds? Or have Dogal also started making them?
If the former,* and assuming you got the 23" scale length version from Strings by Mail (the standard length version would be too short, in all likelihood), you may consider threading the strings though short pieces of stiff tubing and install them from the soundhole, so that part of the string length is tucked inside the body while the other end reaches the tuner tapered. (Bridge pins could then be put back in place for aesthetic reasons, if they don't interfere with the tubes.)

The only other guitar-scale bass flatwound set I'm aware of, made by La Bella for the Gold Tone MBass, is a traditional one, with steel cores (unlike the Gallis), hence not recommended for those guitar-scale acoustic bass models that come with stock nylon-core rounds unless one is willing to move back the bridge. However, if the Ohana uses steel-core strings natively, the La Bellas may intonate fine. According to TBer @kohanmike, who has extensive experience with this kind of instrument as well as string options, the La Bella/Gold Tone flats have a 28" winding length ball-end to silk, so they may also be too long for your basslet.

As for the DIY tapewounds, good thinking. TB members @SamanthaCay also experimented with heat shrink tubing way back when; so did @mrufino1.
I would expect adding mass to only half of the speaking length to actually create more physics problems than doing it throughout, but it is a low amount of mass after all, perhaps negligible FAIAP.


* (but also the latter)

The heat shrink tubing did not work well! Luckily I now have a nice supply for soldering so all good.

 

[iiipopes]

I had the same string squeak in a recent recording session with my U-Bass. Solution: turn down the treble; more precisely, the engineer eq'd it out. It's not the steel core of the strings. I use the Kala Silver Rumblers, another synthetic string that has better tuning stability, great tone, and less finger roll than the stock strings. Nature of the beast.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

The heat shrink tubing did not work well! Luckily I now have a nice supply for soldering so all good.

these partials are actually doing what I want them to, but it’s far from an ideal long term solution. Yeah, the G string doesn’t seem to like added mass at all, luckily the other 3 sound great in my case, and it’s not like I’m rooting heavy 8th note lines on the G anyway, so it’s working out to this point.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

I had the same string squeak in a recent recording session with my U-Bass. Solution: turn down the treble; more precisely, the engineer eq'd it out. It's not the steel core of the strings. I use the Kala Silver Rumblers, another synthetic string that has better tuning stability, great tone, and less finger roll than the stock strings. Nature of the beast.

definitely tried and used eq and compression to this point, the problem is, I want a clear acoustic bass sound in a trio mix, and rolling the highs off takes too much character away, and compression doesn’t do enough on its own. I’ve made compromises I can accept, but I’m hoping for better/easier/faster.

 

[iiipopes]

definitely tried and used eq and compression to this point, the problem is, I want a clear acoustic bass sound in a trio mix, and rolling the highs off takes too much character away, and compression doesn’t do enough on its own. I’ve made compromises I can accept, but I’m hoping for better/easier/faster.

Part of it is technique, especially adopting a double-bass style pizzicato technique, where instead of plucking with the ends or tips of the fingers, roll the wrist in so the thumb is a little bit more under the palm, and come off the string a little more on the side of the finger than the tip, which will help moderate the articulation and can suppress some of the finger squeak.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

@HaphAsSard arright, the strings came in, and they’re close! Any knowledge as to the kind of tube people have used as an extension? Looks like an extension of 1.25” gets the yarn to start where the taper starts in the old strings. Unless I hear a better/cheaper/faster idea, I’m just going to drill out some hardwood dowels or plugs.

 

[HaphAsSard]

@HaphAsSard arright, the strings came in, and they’re close! Any knowledge as to the kind of tube people have used as an extension? Looks like an extension of 1.25” gets the yarn to start where the taper starts in the old strings. Unless I hear a better/cheaper/faster idea, I’m just going to drill out some hardwood dowels or plugs.

First off, do (tuner-end) silks align between the E and the A string? Or does the latter taper at a further distance from the ball? If the former, are the A and D string tuning posts placed far enough from the nut that the respective strings be able to be installed without an under-bridge spacer?
In this case, you'd only need one for the E string. Well, you may want another for the G for symmetry, but it wouldn't be technically needed (even flatwound Gs are flexible enough to be wound at the post at full thickness without ill effects, in my albeit anecdotal experience).
Rolling your own spacer is actually not a bad idea. For better, stabler contact, you could pick as wide a dowel as allowed by surrounding obstacles (A-string ball-end, bracing) and accommodate for one of them, the tip of the bridge pin, with a cutaway at the side of the dowel facing back. (Chopping off the tip would be easier, but what if you change your mind re strings?) You could even make a wedge-shaped spacer, with the widest side against the bridge plate straddling the pin hole front to back.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Good call on only needing one spacer, i think you might be right. I didn’t even look at the middle strings yet. I just had the idea that I’d likely find a spacer at a bead store, there’s a huge wholesale bead warehouse nearby. We shall see, I think I can go shopping tomorrow.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

@HaphAsSard Success! It ain’t particularly pretty, and I’ve got a little work to do on the nut, but preliminary tests are successful. I used a combination of different sized wooden beads to get the E just the right length, the G only needed one spacer, the A and D were good to go as is as you’d guessed. E bridge pin friction fits in, but the G doesn’t, oh well. Intonation is essentially spot on, not that it matters as much with a fretless (and it wasn’t micrometer perfect with the rounds to begin with), so I’d venture a guess this would be useful for fretted models too.

Thanks so much, and finally! A reasonable set of flats for the Ohana! Here’s to hoping I didn’t just buy the last set on earth...

Video to follow!

 

[HaphAsSard]

@Nickweissmusic:
Really pleased to know it worked, and looking forward to the vid!

 

[Garry Goodman]

FWIW- I have a fretless OBU-22 with some of those $100+ stainless steel flat wounds on it. They were designed to correct the intonation issues due to the fixed bridge. They've lasted 7 years. Sometimes you get what you pay for......