Double Bass Details regarding stage etiquette/stage presence

[hsu912174]

Hi all,
I have played in orchestra for some years, but there are still some question regarding on-stage practices I have not been able find answer for, and I would love to get some input on them.

1) The use of bow quiver
I loved the quiver, but I have noticed that the bass sections of two of the top-notch orchestras (namely, Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Chicago Symphony Orchestra) don't use them. Is there a particular reason they opted to not use the quivers? (Sounds, maybe?)

2) Locating the notes
Over the years I have developed the habit of finding my notes on the finger board by measuring from the nut. Would that to be visually distracting? If that is so, is there a better strategy to do that?

3) Gestures
Since there are people in the section that I knew I need to take care of, I often found myself gesturing things like "three until next entrance" or "he's going in four." Would that be very obvious to the audience? If so, is there a more discreet way of doing it?

4) Counting
I have read somewhere that foot tapping is a very annoying thing to watch, and since I don't trust my internal metronome to process the subdivisions I have relegated it to silent counting with my lips. Would that be acceptable, or would it look bad from the audiences perspective?

Thanks.

 

[phill321]

Just my opinion:

1. Some people choose not to use the quiver because it does to some degree stop the tailpiece from vibrating, which means less sound production. However, in my opinion I don't notice anything. They are very convenient. If you look close you do see them. I know a few in NYP have them.

2. No I do not think this is distracting, however, just my opinion, I think it's a habit that one does not need to practice.

3. This is hard to answer. In a top professional orchestra this question would never apply. Everyone knows where they are, yes people might screw up their counting during a long rest, but they usually trust and respect their stand partner to just come in with them. That being said, in a lot of crazy pick up jobs I do, yeah sometimes you need to do what you gotta do, BUT, I do think it's noticeable and I would not do anything that would single out someone in my section and make them look bad. If they get lost, they can follow when I come in, if they don't it's their problem, I am not their teacher. We are all getting paid. Sometimes being principal in a pick up orchestra is a very hard thing, you have to know what is really expected of you. usually you're getting paid to just come in and lay it down. If the section makes a mistake, again in this type of setting, and you don't, I don't think the conductor is gonna have a problem with you.

4. Don't move anything you don't have to. If you need to tap, ok, but tap your toe in your shoe. you will be surprised how much this pisses people off. not just toe tapping, but any type of unnecessary gesture. Your own gesture or toe tap might be perfect for you, but the guy or girl next to you might tap slightly differently, and your tap is screwing them up. I know this sounds a little obsessive, but I was trained to just play and not make any type a gesture. I am NOT saying to be stiff or not move with the music, Rock and Roll away, but I think when the tricky bits come, we tend to do things we aren't aware of, and if it's one bass, do whatever you want, but if you're in the section you'd be surprised I think by what your section really thinks of it. This just happened recently for me. Someone chose to conduct to themselves during a rest, but in my line of sight, they weren't exactly with the conductor (in their defense, they were only doing this with good intentions) but this slight difference in the beat pattern bugged me. Of course though I didn't say anything, it's not the end of the world. BUT you know when you get called to sub with the big boys, sometimes people do these little things and don't get called back and they wonder why.

Again, just my two (or maybe 5) cents.

 

[PaulCannon]

Regarding quivers: Why not tie the thing to your stool? It's nearly as convenient and doesn't affect the bass at all.

 

[Mark_T]

Someone I know who subbed regularly with a major orchestra told me that there were definitely folks in the section who counted on their fingers.

I find that I can often count using subtle motions and with my right hand dropped to the side, behind my bass. The audience might notice a little extraneous motion, but probably couldn't tell that I was counting.

I've also tried gently tapping on the heel or neck with my left hand, if I can't put my bow down. Works just fine and, done quietly, shouldn't bother anyone.

 

[Mark_T]

Regarding quivers: Why not tie the thing to your stool? It's nearly as convenient and doesn't affect the bass at all.

That's exactly what I do. It took a little while to get the angle right, but it's really handy.

 

[hsu912174]

That's exactly what I do. It took a little while to get the angle right, but it's really handy.

I should try that in the next rehearsal.

By the way, I have also noticed that in some orchestras basses have their "shelves" on which they rest their bass during intermission or their bow and rosin and other stuff during performance. I almost wish I have that luxury, too.

 

[hsu912174]

Just my opinion:

1. Some people choose not to use the quiver because it does to some degree stop the tailpiece from vibrating, which means less sound production. However, in my opinion I don't notice anything. They are very convenient. If you look close you do see them. I know a few in NYP have them.

2. No I do not think this is distracting, however, just my opinion, I think it's a habit that one does not need to practice.

3. This is hard to answer. In a top professional orchestra this question would never apply. Everyone knows where they are, yes people might screw up their counting during a long rest, but they usually trust and respect their stand partner to just come in with them. That being said, in a lot of crazy pick up jobs I do, yeah sometimes you need to do what you gotta do, BUT, I do think it's noticeable and I would not do anything that would single out someone in my section and make them look bad. If they get lost, they can follow when I come in, if they don't it's their problem, I am not their teacher. We are all getting paid. Sometimes being principal in a pick up orchestra is a very hard thing, you have to know what is really expected of you. usually you're getting paid to just come in and lay it down. If the section makes a mistake, again in this type of setting, and you don't, I don't think the conductor is gonna have a problem with you.

4. Don't move anything you don't have to. If you need to tap, ok, but tap your toe in your shoe. you will be surprised how much this pisses people off. not just toe tapping, but any type of unnecessary gesture. Your own gesture or toe tap might be perfect for you, but the guy or girl next to you might tap slightly differently, and your tap is screwing them up. I know this sounds a little obsessive, but I was trained to just play and not make any type a gesture. I am NOT saying to be stiff or not move with the music, Rock and Roll away, but I think when the tricky bits come, we tend to do things we aren't aware of, and if it's one bass, do whatever you want, but if you're in the section you'd be surprised I think by what your section really thinks of it. This just happened recently for me. Someone chose to conduct to themselves during a rest, but in my line of sight, they weren't exactly with the conductor (in their defense, they were only doing this with good intentions) but this slight difference in the beat pattern bugged me. Of course though I didn't say anything, it's not the end of the world. BUT you know when you get called to sub with the big boys, sometimes people do these little things and don't get called back and they wonder why.

Again, just my two (or maybe 5) cents.

Thanks. The last bit sums up nicely what I have always feared but couldn't quite put into words.

 

[hsu912174]

As an extension to the first question, would stowing and pulling out the bow be very visually conspicuous? Like, should I try to keep the bow in hand most the time, and not put it away unless I have several pages worth of rest?

 

[phill321]

I think you're fine. You have to move a bit on stage. I for one have to, or else sometimes I feel so stiff. I just meant be cautious of what movements you are doing. Putting your bow down or in a quiver I hardly think anyone would notice. I for one tend to hold onto my bow just because I have a fear of launching it into the front row. Ha

 

[Dbass926]

I second a lot of the advice given above, but the issues of being distracting to the audience and to the orchestra are separate matters. I think being mindful of your colleagues (hard music is hard for everyone, generally) is paramount, because they are the ones recommending you (or cautioning against you) and you need to maintain a relationship with them one way or the other. This mainly pertains to doing things you might think would be helpful, ie conducting with the conductor, counting visibly or audibly, making a large gesture before a pizz, etc. It's best, even as a principal, to just play your best in the manner to which you're accustomed.

Regarding the audience, I think the priority is performing in an engaged way. I would avoid sagging and slouching after you finish playing, not looking bored or being fidgety. These also fall under the DBAA (don't be an *******) category for your colleagues. Don't worry that moving around will bother the audience. They probably like seeing you do your thing, it adds a cool visual element to the concert. Whatever you decide to do or not do, cultivate a relaxed and comfortable demeanor that puts others at ease.

Best of luck!

 

[hsu912174]

Regarding the audience, I think the priority is performing in an engaged way. I would avoid sagging and slouching after you finish playing, not looking bored or being fidgety. These also fall under the DBAA (don't be an *******) category for your colleagues. Don't worry that moving around will bother the audience. They probably like seeing you do your thing, it adds a cool visual element to the concert. Whatever you decide to do or not do, cultivate a relaxed and comfortable demeanor that puts others at ease.

Best of luck!

Especially through the first page of Mahler 1

 

[Rockabass23]

Regarding counting rests: some guys do a little wave with the bow for new sections of rests, cue notes or rehearsal letters. The gesture is small and is done as the bow rests in your right hand by your side. From the audience it looks like nothing, it's barely noticeable. However, it is great for making sure everyone is counting and if someone is lost, they can easily get back on track.

I think using the nut to find notes is a more old school way of doing it but it doesn't matter how you do it, we just need to be in tune.

Counting is something that should be done every second of music. A respected violinist from a top tier group once said that musicians who don't count are lazy. Humbling advice for me.

The most important thing is that audience members hear with their eyes. They don't want to see a stiff sitting there playing the second movement of Shosty 10. The audience wants to see people working and playing powerful music on stage. People enjoy the visualization of it.

Play your heart out every time. Just no DBAA behavior.