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Double Bass Detroit Principal
- Thread starter ispider6
- Start date
Good luck with that one - How many times have they gone through the audition process already without hiring anyone?
Am I mistaken, or was that Bob Gladstone's position?
Am I mistaken, or was that Bob Gladstone's position?
H, A gig is a gig no matter how crappy it may or may not be. You and Quenoil make it easier for some tool to win the job with that attitude.
Nonsense. After 4 (5?) auditions where the finest bass players in the country have put themselves forward it is completely absurd to think they weren't able to find someone to hire. There is obviously something else happening there which is preventing them from hiring. I am not putting down the quality of the orchestra or the job, but clearly there is a major flaw somewhere in their process.
well I still don't agree. Don't get me wrong. Tools usually do well in auditions too . They don't know what can go wrong and therfore don't get nervous.And these are the ones not cranked up on beta blockers clutching their sports psychology books. Not to mention being good at the whole robot,non descript no character playing. Maybe Detroit is trying not to have this style and looking for a very speific personality that fits their organization. That is their right, no?
I dont think anything is wrong with THEIR process. I would say that the process is flawed in most places.
Not hiring may have something to do with the fact that they have a relatively new music director? Oundjian really liked the sound of Jeff Beecher (Curtis, new principal of the Toronto Symphony), maybe he's trying to find that similar sound and youthful style?
I'm by no means a professional, still a student, but I would think that wherever there is a job available (especially such a notorious one), people are always going to be lining up to do that audition even if it takes 5 years to hire.
Just my two cents.
I'm by no means a professional, still a student, but I would think that wherever there is a job available (especially such a notorious one), people are always going to be lining up to do that audition even if it takes 5 years to hire.
Just my two cents.
Of course that's their right. It's their right to have as many auditions as they want and never hire anyone. However, behaving that way is deeply disrespectful to the players who spend thousands of dollars and hours to take the audition. If they have something so specific in mind perhaps they should have an audition where they invite a specially selected group of people who they believe may fit that criteria. Having an unsuccessful audition or two is understandable. 3, 4, or more in a row for the same job? I'd love to hear the explanation (not being sarcastic. I really really would).
Also I agree with you that the process is inherently very flawed. Their version of it just seems, from the outside, to have maximized some of those flaws.
It seems to me that you are making some unfair accusations. It's not disrespectful to not hire anyone. It would be more disrespectful to hire someone that they don't feel is right for the job. It's a shame that they haven't found somebody after this many auditions but they shouldn't settle for someone that isn't a perfect fit. Whoever wins the position will be there for a very long time.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I think these are pretty straightforward observations. Knowing the caliber of the bassists taking auditions right now, it simply seems disingenuous to claim that they can't find the right person after so many auditions. And if they really can't, why do they continue using the same process that is so obviously not working for them?
After this many attempts I think it absolutely is disrespectful to continue to generally invite musicians to audition for a position about which they know they have very very specific ideas.
After this many attempts I think it absolutely is disrespectful to continue to generally invite musicians to audition for a position about which they know they have very very specific ideas.
Quenoil, I'm not sure if I understand why you feel not hiring anyone is disrespectful? It's a musicians choice to go to an audition; of course plenty of money is spent on travel but that's the life of an auditioning musician unfortunately. I don't think Detroit is looking for anything that different from that of any other major orchestra, such as Montreal.
Does anyone have an idea of what the audition criteria might be? It may have something to do with the entire situation.
Does anyone have an idea of what the audition criteria might be? It may have something to do with the entire situation.
Who knows? Maybe you're right. But I think that when a musician invests in taking an audition, the orchestra owes it to them to be sure that everything is in place to create the conditions for a succesful process. This many failed attempts in a row does not inspire confidence in me that they have done that. Until they have their house in order and are able to establish an audition procedure likely to produce a winning candidate, they have no business encouraging folks to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to come audition for them.
I see where you're going Quenoil, it's a fair statement but I would doubt that a possible lack of organizational skills and specific employment criteria is what's keeping Detroit from hiring a suitable candidate. As long as there will be jobs available people will be auditioning regardless of the conditions of the job.
I think the most disgraceful part of this half-decade old process has been the disrespect to Ira Gold. Ira has technically won this position the past few times, including this recent audition, but the committee, for whatever reason, still doesn't hire him. I think the fact that he has clearly established himself in the job circuit (i.e. winning runner-up at the '03 Boston audition) and the fact that he has gained considerable favor among the orchestra about three times now should knuckle the panel under. They're not going to find much better than Ira, so why waste their and everyone else's time?
Totally agree with you here. But like I said the process is flawed most places. It's hard not to mention impossibe to give 100+ fine bassists the chance to show their stuff in the space of ten minutes and at the same time expect the jury to be fresh for each one.
Quenoil, it sounds like you have specific things you are complaining about . Could you explain a little more what it was about the Detroit auditions that was so bad.
It is in the orchestra's full right NOT to hire anyone they deem fit for the job. And I don't think that the guy/girl who can nail all the licks is necessarily the best for the position.
Detroit may not be the best gig or the best city ( another topic altogether) . Maybe they asspire to be.
In anycase, I would complain in writing to the local AFM . That is what you pay them for. Talking about it here is just for fun.
No, I'm not complaining about anything in particular. I know no details about the audition or the orchestra. I just think that their process appears to be broken beyond repair, and it is stunning to me that they don't try to find a way to run an audition likely to produce a winning candidate. Doing the same thing that hasn't worked over and over again... well, you know.
But, consider that the orchestra may feel the process to be better than others if they feel that when they finally do let players past the gate, they are a great fit for the group. I.E. how many examples can you recall in the past decade of one year positions not working out...or kids getting dragged out for multiple one year contracts only to be eventually replaced. While they aren't letting anyone in, at least they haven't totally f&$cked the lives and reputations of five "winning" candidates by letting them take work that the orchestra has no intention of making permanent.
I also agree with Cory. The winning candidate is potentially there for life (40..45..50 years). That's a serious appointment.
All that being said...yes some clarity from the organization would be terrific. Maybe a description of what type of what player/background they would deem acceptable. I.E. "we're only really looking to steal someone from another major symphony"
I also agree with Cory. The winning candidate is potentially there for life (40..45..50 years). That's a serious appointment.
All that being said...yes some clarity from the organization would be terrific. Maybe a description of what type of what player/background they would deem acceptable. I.E. "we're only really looking to steal someone from another major symphony"
