The main bass I used on this album (there are secondary tracks at parts of upright and Bass VI) is tuned BEAD throughout. Gauges of 60, 80, 100, 130.
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50 - 105 for D standard is good, 110 is better but the sets I can get stop at 105... I also like to bend, and the slightly loose tension makes it tolerable.
I think you mean Bb, not A#.
Basses are tuned in perfect 4ths, not augmented 3rds: Is the bass tuned in perfect fourths or fifths?
Unless you tune in fifths. I actually have done a fair amount of that. I seem to always keep at least one electric guitar tuned in the fifths-based Crafty tuning and probably about a third of my guitar work over the last 35 years has been in that tuning, along with a third straight fourths and a third in the standard guitar tuning.
I also played Stick for most of the last 35 years, which certainly had an influence on using fourths on guitar and trying fifths on bass. Eventually, I decided that fifths on a bass scale is just pretty darned hard for my hands, so it’s not at all a regular thing any more, just an occasional recording ploy. Fifths on a guitar scale instrument is more manageable and I still keep an electric tuned Crafty for tunes that need that vibe.
Oh, as far as actual tunings, the first fifths-based tuning on bass I used was CGDA, and I still have a string set assembled for that, though as little as I do it, I don’t really mind the fourth string being a bit loose if I just tune a regular string down to C. OTOH, tuning DAEB is also possible and presents less of a challenge to the current slotting of the nut if you customize strings for that tuning.
Otto
I played a 4 string bass with the E string detuned to D for about 6-7 years. About a year ago, I bought a 5 string with conventional tuning. I’m still having issues adjusting back. That said, I know a lot of players that have no problems switching back and forth.
I had a Carvin Brian Bromberg bass made for me years ago, and ordered the drop D tuner on it. I was playing funk at the time and thought it would be worth having. And it was. Now I play Americana/Roots music and the band sometimes tune to Eb, but use standard tuning for some songs. So I got a sweet deal on a Peavy Foundation 5 and use that.
Yes, the trick which people hasn't got with "my" capo use, is that I don't alter the tuning at all. It's still regular tuning and all the notes stays the same, and you don't have to rethink at all anytime. The capo is the "retuning" device so to speak. You only change or add the possibility to have open strings ringing whenever pedalling, or drone. The fretted notes are always the same like on any other, and with the capo on 5th you impersonate a regular bass, albeit with some kind of shorter scale. You don't change tension at all anywhere. There are too may songs today that requires drop Eb anyway, so it comes in quite handy.
I tune with my guitarists; just easier to compose when you can talk frets instead of notes, or watch hands, in a pinch.Doubly silly
Lol nah I got nothing against 5 strings I just snagged up this black peavey t-40 and I love the sound and the look and I really just want to use it in this band haha
I also used a T-40 for years in my down-tuned band, but ultimately made a change. I tune to A#, F, A#, D# and I really hated the lack of tension in the strings. One solution is to increase the gauge of the strings, which I did. Even a 130 in that tuning, kind of felt floppy to me, and didn't allow me to have the action set to a comfortable level. I went even thicker, but the low string sounded thumpy and dead. One solution for this is to get a tapered string, but because the T-40 is string-through body, the taper wouldn't align with the bridge. I discovered the 35" scale 5 string Lakland, and my problems were solved. I could play a 130 at our tuning and still have decent string tension and okay action. I've since commissioned a couple 35" scale 4 strings from a custom builder, and life is good. A lot of this is preference of course; plenty of folks play 34" scale with low B or even lower. I just prefer the longer scale for clarity and my playing style.
Hey, I read about that album on The Sludgelord and heard the track they premiered, very cool man. Nice work.
Thanks Honch. Funny after over 50 years of playing bass, I’ve never tried using a capo. Never even considered it.
Just some historical perspective: a LOT of the half step de-tuning popularity on the club band circuit was initially driven by the Stevie Ray Vaughan influence. Double Trouble was always down a half step, and that influence led a large number of cover bands to play detuned down a half step. In fact, after a while, the reasoning was that the half step de-tune was “easier on the singer.” In reality, SRV was down a half step due to the ultra heavy strings he was using for his Blues based techniques; and regular tuning with those strings can make the guitar much harder to play. Anyhow, it became a thing.
Then the Doom/Death Metal thing took tunings way low.
Orchestral bassists have struggled with this issue for a couple of centuries now. For example, the Beethoven 6th has extremely difficult passages going down to the low C. Five string uprights are not so common, and particularly those with great sound. So, many players use extensions. I’ve mostly been a hobby Classical player, though I do have a nice bass. While I always considered the extensions to be a PITA, and not worth the effort, the current Orchestra section I’m working in now has 3 players with extensions and one player tuning to fifths. The low note passages are thunderous, and have me reconsidering.
My 4 string bass guitars all have the HipShot. I found learning to to play DADG, when required, to be a lot of fun. Some tunes, like Slither, are written for that tuning. A lot of horn tunes are in the flat keys. For example, a lot of Stevie Wonder’s stuff needs the lower note, unless you transpose it. The detuned 4 with DADG let’s you play 95% of the standard cover stuff.
There are tunes which are really much better with the B string. For example, my current cover gig decided to do Can’t Hurry Love transposed down to Ab from Bb, mainly due to the male vocal range. But, it is practically impossible to play the Jamerson signature root-five toggle in Ab with the HipShot DADG tuning. Another example is Uptown Funk; which actually lays pretty well on the DADG tuning, but gives up the low C grace note. Stuff like that.
Anyhow, the mission is to play the right notes at the right time with the right attack, dynamic, and groove. Serve the music and understand the tooling.
Then the Doom/Death Metal thing took tunings way low.
Orchestral bassists have struggled with this issue for a couple of centuries now. For example, the Beethoven 6th has extremely difficult passages going down to the low C. Five string uprights are not so common, and particularly those with great sound. So, many players use extensions. I’ve mostly been a hobby Classical player, though I do have a nice bass. While I always considered the extensions to be a PITA, and not worth the effort, the current Orchestra section I’m working in now has 3 players with extensions and one player tuning to fifths. The low note passages are thunderous, and have me reconsidering.
My 4 string bass guitars all have the HipShot. I found learning to to play DADG, when required, to be a lot of fun. Some tunes, like Slither, are written for that tuning. A lot of horn tunes are in the flat keys. For example, a lot of Stevie Wonder’s stuff needs the lower note, unless you transpose it. The detuned 4 with DADG let’s you play 95% of the standard cover stuff.
There are tunes which are really much better with the B string. For example, my current cover gig decided to do Can’t Hurry Love transposed down to Ab from Bb, mainly due to the male vocal range. But, it is practically impossible to play the Jamerson signature root-five toggle in Ab with the HipShot DADG tuning. Another example is Uptown Funk; which actually lays pretty well on the DADG tuning, but gives up the low C grace note. Stuff like that.
Anyhow, the mission is to play the right notes at the right time with the right attack, dynamic, and groove. Serve the music and understand the tooling.
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The one to keep in mind if playing above 12th fret with BEAD/CAPO thing. If you keep 4 string - which I do, otherwise it's kind of dumb - it can be a little sour playing above 12th fret on that thick "b-string". Thus, a bass designed like this will help immensely since the scale are longer on the thick string:
Don't mind the capo. It will be in place just like any other bass. Don't need to fan that one. But yess, a fanned fret bass helps. Especially with a 36.5 low "E" string or "B" as it will be with BEAD. The Kyser capo I use is a one made for 12 string guitar with slightly wider spacing and slightly more force/pressure. Works a charm. Whenever I play ope B, I just clip it on headstock. Try it if you like it. No modifications needed. If you don't like it, nothing is going to cost you retracting or going back to no BEAD tuning or no capo. Capo can be used for guitars then, no need to feel wasting money then. You can even borrow one from you grtd in your band and try it out. A general tip though:
Do not ever rely on the dots and markings on the frets. You have to learn all positions from the heart.
Peopl thinks the sound will be reminiscent of a very short scale bass but it isn't since the tension are the same. I mean, with the capo on 5th. But it isn't. It's loud and proud and long sustain up the neck...all strings...
Personally would prefer tuning to D-standard than drop-D. In all Four string sets (non-balanced) the low E is the one with least tension. Dropping to D just makes that string floppy. You need a 110 on the bottom like in Billy sheehans sig. Set.
Another advantage about D standard is that Your Playing Will move upp the fretboard so runs in F , F# and G requires less of a stretc on a 34” scale bass if you a smaller person.
That low D is just so Nice to have. The D note on the A string just seems a little too light to be the root note in some tunes.. i have less problems with the C note especially since i tune my instruments to A4=435hz or 20 cents flat. Gives a rounder Sound and Helps my vocals.
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thats such a minor difference in pitch that i cant see how it could be of such great benfit to make yourself unplayable with others unless they match your tuning.
If you play with fixed pitch instruments you have no choice but to conform to standard pitch A4=440Hz. But a rockband with guitars and basses and perhaps a keyboard can play in whatever pitch they like.
Old AC/DC tracks like TNT and highway to hell is around 430Hz in pitch. Gives them a certain sound in my opinion
First time I've heard anyone craving others to tune lower reference pitch, just to suit his voice. Why not drop the song in all? If you can't sing it in C why not just play it in B then? Half step. Like everyone else does? That crap with tuning flatter than 440 Hz just to accomodate for someones voice sound strained, will not fly with me, and I don't know anyone else it would fly with either. Not any singer I've worked with at least, or other musician. It's only, and if, only you're playing very old classical music on their instruments that needs the temperament and tuning of those instruments way back, just because they can't be tuned in any other way, and that's even before any voice coming into play at all. And then it's not about playing in C, the reference tuning is way lower than that and just for pretentious struttery, snobbery. If you're tuning anything A lower and lower than 440, it will hit Ab soon enough. It's just relative what you want to call it. If you have to tune it 435 so your voice isn't so strained, and it makes you impossible to hit the notes at 440 it's your voice techniqe that you need spiffing up, nothing else.
If I was in any band ever, I've never heard anyone say "that 440 pitch is too high for me to sing in". The say "that key is too high for me to sing in" and we all drop a half or more and leave it at that. To retune an "A" key, visually, and fret dot wise, down to Ab and still say it's an "A" is just lame noobers who does that. Beginners. Playing an A on the keys and it sounds a Ab. @Anders Barfod I can't believe that you have bandmembers falling for this, and still are in the band after a while. To say that you can't sing ANY song in ANY key (which sound strained and struggling and contrived) unless it's tuned lower than A440 is just pure bollox to me. You may have some ailment you should seek medical help for. You may have perfect pitch though, but that's a whole another deal. Let's get back on track to the OPs topic. Anders, take another thread, and create it.
If I was in any band ever, I've never heard anyone say "that 440 pitch is too high for me to sing in". The say "that key is too high for me to sing in" and we all drop a half or more and leave it at that. To retune an "A" key, visually, and fret dot wise, down to Ab and still say it's an "A" is just lame noobers who does that. Beginners. Playing an A on the keys and it sounds a Ab. @Anders Barfod I can't believe that you have bandmembers falling for this, and still are in the band after a while. To say that you can't sing ANY song in ANY key (which sound strained and struggling and contrived) unless it's tuned lower than A440 is just pure bollox to me. You may have some ailment you should seek medical help for. You may have perfect pitch though, but that's a whole another deal. Let's get back on track to the OPs topic. Anders, take another thread, and create it.
To get back in track. Drop tuning on a 4 is understandable if your repetoire includes a lot of the notes from the C to E-flat and you feel more comftable on a 4 string . But one thing i must say is that if you do not play with a softer dynamic touch go for strings that give you a good tension when dropped. Sloppy strings with a very sharp (pitch) attack is not good in my own opinion.
Pino P seems to stay on four strings but tunes to D standard when playing with d'angelo which tunes seem to require that low D at Times.
Pino P seems to stay on four strings but tunes to D standard when playing with d'angelo which tunes seem to require that low D at Times.
I know you can, just most aren’t going to want to. Plus I guess that’s one way to get no one ever to just randomly jam with you lol
And as for old recordings being in off tunings, more often than not it was manipulation of tape speed, or they didn’t have tuners and tuned to each other. I doubt AC/DC ever switches guitars live for 430 tuning.
