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Double Bass DI/HPF/Preamp question

X

XSterling

Jul 8, 2012
124
17
Spain
#1
I'm very happy with my FDeck's Series II as a preamp/HPF but do you think that is it necessary to own a piezo friendly DI?
I have made a lot of gigs and seen soundguys connecting these universal beringher DI's too much...
Do you think that it would be an improvement to put a simple Radial StageBug SB-4 ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) in the chain? After the Fdeck's?

First I was thinking about the Radial PZ-DI ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed])but as I have the FDeck's HPF it seems that the StageBug SB-4 would be enought...
Or maybe I must go directly to the PZ-Deluxe Preamp (PZ-Deluxe Acoustic Preamp)...
 
#3
Jeff Bonny said:
Once you've buffered the signal with a preamp in front of the DI a regular DI works fine. The only reason you'd need a piezo specific DI is if you wanted to put your preamp after the DI and send the signal directly from the pickup to the PA.
Click to expand...

I also have an old Gallien Krueger 800RB and I like how it sounds when I connect the Underwood directly to it, without the FDeck's preamp.
What would be the best way to send a good signal to the FOH? Putting my FDeck's as a signal buffer (with the HPF at 35Hz. Will it change the amp's sound? ) and then any regular DI? Use an specfic DI like the Radial?
I know that the GK800RB has a rear Direct Out, but it's post-EQ and I think that it's better for the soundmen to send a pre-EQ signal.
 
#4
You can put any DI-box behind the HPFpre, even a passive one might work. Don't worry about the HPF setting, the sound guy can add bass if needed, but in most cases removing some bass is good for the FOH too, specially if the sound guy doesn't turn the bass frequencies down himself or even more bad enhanced the bass frequencies on his board.
 
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#5
You can always get both in one box. Josh Broughton made me and hpf/lpf/DI/mute box all in one. I noticed that the fdeck wasn't sending a strong enough signal to my AI focus - no preamp in chain or in the head. I used the radial for awhile and didn't like the color it added to my bass. The box I have now is clean. It does all I need in one box that I had him put a 9V inside of so I'm not worrying about finding an outlet every gig.

I think you can contact him here through here - @azureskies I think.
 
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#6
neddyrow said:
You can always get both in one box. Josh Broughton made me and hpf/lpf/DI/mute box all in one. I noticed that the fdeck wasn't sending a strong enough signal to my AI focus - no preamp in chain or in the head. I used the radial for awhile and didn't like the color it added to my bass. The box I have now is clean. It does all I need in one box that I had him put a 9V inside of so I'm not worrying about finding an outlet every gig.

I think you can contact him here through here - @azureskies I think.
Click to expand...

Very interesting! Can you tell me how much it costs?
What kind of Radial did you used?
 
#7
DoubleMIDI said:
You can put any DI-box behind the HPFpre, even a passive one might work. Don't worry about the HPF setting, the sound guy can add bass if needed, but in most cases removing some bass is good for the FOH too, specially if the sound guy doesn't turn the bass frequencies down himself or even more bad enhanced the bass frequencies on his board.
Click to expand...
I have read in older posts that putting a DI between the piezo (Underwood in my case) and the amp will alter the amp's sound...
I really like the sound of my amp connecting the underwood directly to it and I don't want to change it!
I only want that the soundguy could get a good sound.
Then: Underwood>Radial SB4>GK800RB won't sound good?
And Underwood>Fdeck's HPF (at minium=35Hz)>Radial SB4>GK800RB will sound Ok without altering the amp's sound?
 
#8
You can't go wrong with Broughton's stuff.

The only thing I'll add here is that not all DI's are created equal. For example, those Behringer DI's are garbage. My guitar player was using one forever, and I couldn't convince him otherwise. He said something like, "man you can pick these things up on musicians friend for like 40 bucks"....yeah there's a reason. Why are you plugging Martins and Taylors into the cheapest box made? Anyway, he ended using a quality DI once when his crapped out - and he's never gone back. I just shook my head at him.

I have the same opinion of a lot of the built in DI's on heads, and some preamps. I'm not going to pretend to know the technical reasons why, but the ears don't lie (and neither do the sound guys). I use a dedicated DI in my rig regardless of what DI's are available on the head or pre's.

A nice radial, countryman, or broughton will probably last you the rest of your life.
 
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#9
i used a pz-pre or what ever it was called. just the one channel. and not the bassbone. the one meant for piezos. it worked well in controlling feedback in tough rooms but i didn't like the "color" it added to my bass.

my hpf/lpf/mute/DI was about $220. it could have been less but i wanted a bigger box so it wasn't too light and wouldn't flip over if i moved. i'll post a pic of it when i get home from work.

best piece of gear for us guys!
 
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#10
The passive piezo together with the input impedance (specially if it is not very high) build a special tone shaping circuit. So if you do not like the high 10 MegOhms impedance of the HPFpre, you can find out the input impedance of your amp and modify the HPFpre for this input impedance. Either internally or by bridging an external short 1/4" elongation cable (jack and plug) with the resistance from hot to shield (ideally close to or at the plug) that goes into the HPFpre.
Using an EQ cannot exactly bring back what the piezo-input impedance does, bad or good.

The only other solution is finding a preamp with the input impedance of your amp or take the DI-out of your amp. If there is none but a line or speaker output, use that, but set the DI-box to line or speaker level.
 
#11
There are several needs to assess and then decide if you want to take care of all of them with one box or as many individual boxes as it requires.
1. Buffering the signal from the piezo pickup to your amp and/or the PA.
2. DI to the PA.
3. Additional EQ including notch filtering and high pass filtering.
4. Is a double bass the only instrument you will ever use this gear for or would you like it to work with other instruments like the bass guitar too?

I tend to like using separate EQ's and DI's because they are more versatile. This can be important if you are regularly using different amps. It is often more expensive though and means more cables and power supplies. It's also generally a little more work to setup, to learn to use effectively and carry.

But on the other hand you don't want to be using a bunch of different devices when you don't need them. If you like the sound you get now from your amp and just want to get the signal to the PA I'd buy a high quality passive DI like a Radial JDI and buffer the signal with the fdeck HPF Pre you already own in front of it. I say a passive DI because if you're putting a preamp that can increase gain in front of it passive might be a better choice and you don't have to worry about powering it. But really any good DI either passive or active works fine with either passive or active instruments. Since a good DI will be useful in many situations for years to come this is a very safe investment especially if you buy a used one. And yes the HPF Pre will effect the sound of your amp somewhat but it will be a very minimal effect in terms of basic tone and will almost certainly be a positive thing.

Take all this advice with a grain of salt...it is only my opinion. I do have some experience with this stuff but what works for me is not what works for everyone. There have been some other good options suggested and you should think about them too. One thing most people here seem to agree on is that Radial makes excellent gear. My experience with Broughton is that it's also excellent.
 
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