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DI woes

M

molsen

Jan 8, 2007
132
0
Jacksonville, FL
#1
Every show I play with my band, the sound guy usually insists on using his own DI box before my amp. My amp has a bit of its own sound to it and some higher frequencies cut to create my tone....so is it wrong for me to want him to use the amp's DI?

I can understand WHY he wants to use his own. He can trust his own stuff and that's one less variable in the equation if something's not going right.

But I just want my sound to be heard how I want it to be heard, ya know? I shape my tone for a reason....

So Is it wrong to ask the soundguy to use my DI, and then if there's a problem, he can use his? Or should I just get another fish&chips EQ and shape my tone with that and leave the amp's settings completely flat?

I know the answer is probably already "yes, it's wrong, yes just get another EQ" but I just want to see what you all think...the last thing i want to do is piss off/offend the sound guy.
 
#3
The thing is, the EQ setup to get the sound you want from your amp onstage is often NOT the same EQ curve needed to get the "same" sound projected over the PA. That is the trick with trusting a soundperson; you have to let them know what kind of tone you're after, and they will try to EQ their mix to get that sound out to the audience. If they are an incompetant baboon, you're screwed, but a decent pro soundperson will know what's best for that room. As far as your amp having its own tone that you like, your options include miking the cab, or using a preamp-type pedal with a similar tone.
 
#4
I pretty much insist that soundmen use the DI from the back of my amp for the same reason when I'm using my own amp. However, if it's a situation where I think I might lose a regular gig over it, my resistance is significantly lower. Caring about your tone is nice, but don't lose a gig over it. It's simply not that important.
 
#5
How your bass sounds onstage is very different than what it sounds in the house. After that, bass amps all have certain EQ to them while PA equipment have a flatter response. That's why "your sound" is generally not wanted by the soundmen.

Finally, a good DI box (JDI,U5,Countryman,BSS) will generally be better than most head's DI, unless you have VERY expensive equipment. Also, if something goes wrong during the show, it's easier for the tech people to switch a DI box than to: find a DI box, unplug the xlr from your head, plug into the DI, run a cable from the DI to your head...you see?

This should be a good read for you (it was for me):

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3273061

If you still thinks you really need "your sound" in the house mix, then miking your rig should be the next step. It's generally done by mixing the DI signal AND the miked line. Be careful because if you (gently) force the soundmen to do this and he's never done it before, you may end up with a really bad tone this night as you have to know how to do it. If done correctly, it can gives really great results.

Still, the best live sounds I had were just my bass into my JDI. I never go to a gig without my own DI. It's as (or more) important as having my amp with me.

To finish, you're the pro of bass playing. The soundmen is the pro of FOH. Let him do his job...or get someone else who can do it :smug:
 
#6
So what is your amp? Usually, sound men are OK running out of an Eden DI, and I imagine they'd take a feed off my Aggie DB750. Anything else, they may want to use their own. Of course, if he walks up with a B-word DI, the laugh is on him.

As others have said, a good DI is not going to color you tone and, even if he takes it off your DI, he's still going to EQ it to his taste at FOH. I'd say you're better off with his DI, as long as it's Radial, Countryman, BSS or some of the ProCo units.
 
#8
A sound man is to a rock band what a conductor is to a symphony. His job is to control and shape what the audience hears...and to make you sound as good as possible. Unfortunately, they are often treated like worthless bums musicians who are sure they know better, even if they can't hear what they sound like out front. Get a sound man you can trust and then let him do his job.
 
#9
as a FOH engineer, there are so many "bass players" out there that don't have a clue what a good bass tone is, that often when using an amps DI post eq is unusable FOH. With bass players like this, often a "b-word" DI can save the day, and I often have to convince them its the right choice, i.e. "yes i understand you have an ampeg b series combo which cost you lots of money (ha) but regardless of what I do with EQ, it still sounds too boomy im afraid". This makes it sound like it's partly the PA's fault, whereas, its actually the fact that a post-eq DI on an amp with bass boosted as far as it'll go and all the top end cut, is just gonna sound terrible! And these are usually the bands who show up 20 minutes before doors and expect to spend an hour soundchecking.

On the other hand, there are bands who show up on time, are professional and set up quickly. These bands usually have nice bass heads and/or their own DI and i'm more than happy to use it!!!
 
#10
My only issue with DI in general is that using them right after the bass and before the preamp/head really sucks unless you are a purist. It supposes that a bassist's preamp or head don't matter. Guitarists never get that disrespect. I actually like speaker-level DI when possible.

Still, having also been the sound engineer, it really sucks when someone wants you to deal with post-EQ onboard DI that's poorly designed and noisy and makes ground loop problems or blows up because the mixer is supplying phantom power. and some people just EQ so radically to make up for their bad hearing or to compensate for their cabs' tonal faults, or cab positioning. I try to get them to tilt their cabs up if they are short cabs, or place them high enough to see that their EQ doesn't need to be so ridiculous.
 
#11
Boxes like the Avalon U5 or Radial JDI allow for the DI to be in parallel with the speaker on your amp. That way, the FOH siganl contains your pre's tone shaping as well as any power amp tonal influence (like with a tube amp for instance).
 
#14
at a rehearsal room, often bass is eq'd such that it pokes
thru the mix at a lower frequency than the kick drum.
often at a live show thru FOH, it is the opposite.
believe me, there are good reasons for this! low bass can
be unintelligable mud in some live venues.
if the soundman taps your signal from your amp
(post eq) he can only pray that you are aware of the facts.
given an un-eq'd version of your signal you can only hope
he knows what to do with it---if he does you will better
off.
 
#15
Just let him stick his DI in the chain and take the DI out of your head. He has both if your heads DI dies or is too noisy he can just use his. He can also blend them to his taste and do whatever if he just wants to mute yours thats fine too as long as it sounds good FOH. Honestly you cant hear your own tone FOH most of the time and if its good but not quite you you'll survive. All of this assumes you have a competent sound guy.
 

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