Dialing in a backline rig with minimal time

[Chris Wilke]

A common situation for me and I suspect some others as well: hopping up on a bandstand or popping into a rehearsal studio, (sometimes with musicians I know and have rehearsed with, and sometimes not). Often these situations are with backlined amps and cabinet.

I find I can usually make a few thumps and some quick test sounds here and there while people wait, and get an idea for how my bass, the room, and the rig sound together and I am usually ready to go.

Then, when the first down beat happens sometimes I'll realize that I am way off from where I want to be, and need to make some changes quickly either on my bass, pedals or the amp head.

Sometimes I can fix it quickly, but other times I'll struggle with it for an entire set.

Amps I've struggled with consistently include Hartke, G&k, Ashdown and some Ampeg (the PF-800 is not my friend apparently).

When I have a problem it seems most often on a 410 cabinet. Not sure why, but they often feel slow and boomy. I love my stacked portaflex 210s though.

What do you all do to quickly dial in a backline?

Do you adjust on the fly? What do you do to anticipate a problem and compensate in advance?

Do you insist on a longer soundcheck for the bass rig if needed?

Do you bring your own rig, even when there is a backline option, or least an amp head you are familiar with?

 

[Docduval]

Active 3 band bass is paramount in these situations.

 

[waynobass]

Do you bring your own rig, even when there is a backline option, or least an amp head you are familiar with?

No way, I always gratefully use the provided amp. Just make some quick adjustments after the first song.

You may be overthinking things. It probably sounds fine to the audience.

Do you insist on a longer soundcheck for the bass rig if needed?

No way. We bassists are not divas.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I generally start with all eqs at center - flat as possible. I run through a few two octave chromatic scales, and flavor from there.

It's not go8ng to be perfect, but don't obsess.

 

[Scott Lynch]

Slow and boomy sounds like an excess of lows. Cutting the bass control can help but depending on the shelving frequency and other factors like the cab, room acoustics etc. it can seem nearly impossible to cut the bloat on some of those rigs without making the bass sound too thin.

Consider an HPF. There are pedalboard friendly options as well as battery powered ones like the F Deck. These can help to tame the sub lows and can work interactively with a shelving type bass EQ to dial in the appropriate amount of punch back into the sound when needed.

 

[Chris Wilke]

No way, I always gratefully use the provided amp. Just make some quick adjustments after the first song.

You may be overthinking things. It probably sounds fine to the audience.



No way. We bassists are not divas.

These responses have been my default as well. Just hate to feel like I am in a struggle sometimes.

 

[Chris Wilke]

Slow and boomy sounds like an excess of lows. Cutting the bass control can help but depending on the shelving frequency and other factors like the cab, room acoustics etc. it can seem nearly impossible to cut the bloat on some of those rigs without making the bass sound too thin.

Consider an HPF. There are pedalboard friendly options as well as battery powered ones like the F Deck. These can help to tame the sub lows and can work interactively with a shelving type bass EQ to dial in the appropriate amount of punch back into the sound when needed.

Thanks. I actually have two non variable HPFs on one of my pedal boards (one built in to a Sansamp, one into a seperate DI), and none on the other mini board (tuner, compressor, drive chorus). Perhaps I should remedy that and have one on each!

I also have a Mesa WD 800 with a built in variable HPF and that is not hard to travel with. The experience that prompted this post with a backlined PF800 into a 410 could have benefited from a better amp, that I am familiar with, with a variable HPF.

 

[gregbackstrom]

Slow and boomy sounds like an excess of lows. Cutting the bass control can help but depending on the shelving frequency and other factors like the cab, room acoustics etc. it can seem nearly impossible to cut the bloat on some of those rigs without making the bass sound too thin.

Consider an HPF. There are pedalboard friendly options as well as battery powered ones like the F Deck. These can help to tame the sub lows and can work interactively with a shelving type bass EQ to dial in the appropriate amount of punch back into the sound when needed.

I’m generally pretty good at making the midrange sound good. My challenges are usually at the frequency extremes. Broughton’s Low + High Pass Filter has helped me quickly dial in some challenging backlines and venues.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

Get a preamp pedal you like and set the EQ flat on the amp. Adjust mids depending on tone stack. I prefer to have an HPF also but mine is on my cali76 after my preamp pedal. I get compliments on my tone even when it’s not my rig. You will also.

 

[bassfran]

First thing I do is cut master volume down so my testing is more discreet. Then I get rid of what I don’t need/add what I do re; eq. Bring volume back up to make sure it’s compatible with the stage/drums. No wankery, 15-20 seconds, tops.
Minor adjustments as necessary after 1st tune and just play.

 

[Barticus]

Thanks. I actually have two non variable HPFs on one of my pedal boards (one built in to a Sansamp, one into a seperate DI), and none on the other mini board (tuner, compressor, drive chorus). Perhaps I should remedy that and have one on each!

I also have a Mesa WD 800 with a built in variable HPF and that is not hard to travel with. The experience that prompted this post with a backlined PF800 into a 410 could have benefited from a better amp, that I am familiar with, with a variable HPF.

Then why not just throw down your head and play, seems like an easy fix.

 

[Jazzdogg]

A common situation for me and I suspect some others as well: hopping up on a bandstand or popping into a rehearsal studio, (sometimes with musicians I know and have rehearsed with, and sometimes not). Often these situations are with backlined amps and cabinet.

I find I can usually make a few thumps and some quick test sounds here and there while people wait, and get an idea for how my bass, the room, and the rig sound together and I am usually ready to go.

Then, when the first down beat happens sometimes I'll realize that I am way off from where I want to be, and need to make some changes quickly either on my bass, pedals or the amp head.

Sometimes I can fix it quickly, but other times I'll struggle with it for an entire set.

Amps I've struggled with consistently include Hartke, G&k, Ashdown and some Ampeg (the PF-800 is not my friend apparently).

When I have a problem it seems most often on a 410 cabinet. Not sure why, but they often feel slow and boomy. I love my stacked portaflex 210s though.

What do you all do to quickly dial in a backline?

Do you adjust on the fly? What do you do to anticipate a problem and compensate in advance?

Do you insist on a longer soundcheck for the bass rig if needed?

Do you bring your own rig, even when there is a backline option, or least an amp head you are familiar with?

Placement of the cab within the venue (including elevating cabs and tilting them back) and judicious use of a variable high-pass filter are the first things I do to accommodate venue acoustics, which are factors I didn't understand very well during the first forty years I played.

Most of the bassists I hear these days apparently lack understanding of these elements as well, based upon their sound.

Most of these same bassists seem keen on achieving their bedroom tone on stage.

I was better able to connect the dots after I started using a wireless rig that enabled me to wander around the venue while playing.

Good luck in your quest for better sound.

 

[jdjk7]

A common situation for me and I suspect some others as well: hopping up on a bandstand or popping into a rehearsal studio, (sometimes with musicians I know and have rehearsed with, and sometimes not). Often these situations are with backlined amps and cabinet.

I find I can usually make a few thumps and some quick test sounds here and there while people wait, and get an idea for how my bass, the room, and the rig sound together and I am usually ready to go.

Then, when the first down beat happens sometimes I'll realize that I am way off from where I want to be, and need to make some changes quickly either on my bass, pedals or the amp head.

Sometimes I can fix it quickly, but other times I'll struggle with it for an entire set.

Amps I've struggled with consistently include Hartke, G&k, Ashdown and some Ampeg (the PF-800 is not my friend apparently).

When I have a problem it seems most often on a 410 cabinet. Not sure why, but they often feel slow and boomy. I love my stacked portaflex 210s though.

What do you all do to quickly dial in a backline?

Do you adjust on the fly? What do you do to anticipate a problem and compensate in advance?

Do you insist on a longer soundcheck for the bass rig if needed?

Do you bring your own rig, even when there is a backline option, or least an amp head you are familiar with?

In pretty much any situation, I bring my own rig. If it is absolutely, positively insisted that I use the backline, I at least bring my pedalboard, and then try my best to dial the backline rig flat.

 

[burgerdj]

Sansamp into the FX return. This is one of the primary use cases for it.

Otherwise, it’s critical to understand the common tone stacks (“flat” often times isn’t) and be prepared to adjust your default eq settings accordingly.

 

[MCS4]

I always bring my rig. In the rare occasions where using the backline cab is mandatory I'll still use my amp head/rack and pedalboard, so I'm already mostly there on my tone anyway.

 

[vickerekes]

Sansamp into the FX return. This is one of the primary use cases for it.

Otherwise, it’s critical to understand the common tone stacks (“flat” often times isn’t) and be prepared to adjust your default eq settings accordingly.

This: in addition, I use a DSM Omnicamsim Deluxe tweakable cabsim after the BDDI to deal with any quirks in the speakers/room/placement, etc.
(not my analysis, but very good) DSM Noisemaker OmniCabSim Deluxe : knobs and frequency response

 

[Wasnex]

Your Questions In Bold:

What do you all do to quickly dial in a backline?
Play, listen, and twist the knobs.

Do you adjust on the fly?
Yes to some extent.

What do you do to anticipate a problem and compensate in advance?
It helps to understand the difference between "bedroom tone" and the type of tone that works on stage. Try to dial in a working tone before sound check. Caveat: The sound I dial in while playing by myself is almost always too bass heavy to work in the mix. This is true even though I try to compensate and dial in a lean low end. Inevitably once I start playing with the band, I wind up dialing back the bass and boosting mids and highs.

Part of the issue here is acoustics vary from one venue to the next. So the type of tone that work in one venue may not be optimal for the next. I am really not a set it and forget type as I feel there is usually a benefit to be gained from tailoring you sound to each acoustic environment.

However, often the best you can do is make it suck just a little less.

Do you insist on a longer soundcheck for the bass rig if needed?
Not if if means delaying the start of the show or getting on the wrong side of an important decision holder.

Do you bring your own rig, even when there is a backline option, or least an amp head you are familiar with?
I prefer to use my own full rig. Each amp and cabs trends to have unique baked in tone qualities, so it's not always helpful to have one of them. By using my own full rig, I know what it can do and how it responds to adjustments.

Advice:
My advice is to have realistic expectations. Do the best you can in available time. It's okay to make a few changes during the show between songs, but at some point you should accept that your tone is as good as you can reasonably make it and turn your full attention to putting on the best show possible. Sometimes the sound sucks and there is nothing you can do about it. Frequently you wind up chasing your tail. By this I mean every change improves the sound in one way while simultaneously degrading the sound in another way, so continuing to make adjustments is essentially pointless.

At some point fairly early in the show, the best thing you can do is smile (or put on whatever expression is appropriate) and act like your having an awesome gig. To some extent being a pro is about selling the fantasy that you are having the time of your life--even when you're not.

 

[blastoff]

despite the love for them i never seem to get a good sound with Fender Rumbles. or those newer bassman combos. but the sound you hear (on stage/ in your head) isn't what the audience hears, whether theres a PA or not. it seems like often ill get through a set cursing a backline, and then the next band gets on and the bass sounds great. so it goes.
don't overthink it is good advice

 

[J Wilson]

The last thing anybody is going to do is wait on the bass player to get a tone.

So.

On the bass if it was passive, I'd set the tone between half and wide open. An active bass, flat to start with.

On the amp, I'd dial in a bass boost, cut the mids a bit, and leave the treble even.

Make sure my volume fits, I'd already tuned, and off we go.

No one else on the bandstand is going to care one bit about all the navel-gazing one can do sweating every last inch of tone.

So you want to be able to start with at least a full sound to anchor the band. Then as the gig goes on you can fine-tune as needed, you get it just right as you play along and can hear yourself against everything else.

If you got to walk in and make it work RIGHT NOW, you got to hit the floor running, and then play your way into it.

Stand back there and make everyone wait, and five hours later, your One Night Stand will be over.

 

[klokker]

I don't care much about my tone when using a provided backline. It's just there for the stage anyway, as long as I can hear it, it's all good. The sound tech usually knows the room, and it will be what it will be.

Let's say it's a casino. I'm not going to waltz in there and get real picky about my on stage tone. We would like to be asked back etc. Send a pre eq to the board, push the mids a little and enjoy the evening.

I am picky about my tone when my cab carries the bass. But in that case I'm in control.