It would help solve the problem yes. I have done this at several rehearsal spaces when I know what I am going to be dealing with but sometimes it's tempting to travel light.
Also curious what others do.
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Dialing in a backline rig with minimal time
- Thread starter Chris Wilke
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- amps and cabs bass rigs eq
Also curious what others do.
Thanks for the replies everyone -- great suggestions.
To be clear I am not talking about sweating how to get the perfect tone/ timbre, I am talking about fixing a really bad sound quickly, with unfamiliar gear (or avoiding that situation by bringing my own solution), mainly so I can pivot and focus on the music, making only small adjustments from there.
And yeah some times it might just sound bad where I am standing so my job might be just to make it work.
I think getting an HPF or a Sansamp of some sort into my mini board, might be a good place to start.
To be clear I am not talking about sweating how to get the perfect tone/ timbre, I am talking about fixing a really bad sound quickly, with unfamiliar gear (or avoiding that situation by bringing my own solution), mainly so I can pivot and focus on the music, making only small adjustments from there.
And yeah some times it might just sound bad where I am standing so my job might be just to make it work.
I think getting an HPF or a Sansamp of some sort into my mini board, might be a good place to start.
Bring a pre with a HPF/LPF such as a Broughton Messenger, set the back line flat.
I generally brought my own amp. I'd only boost the bass on outdoor gigs - indoor gigs the problem was usually boominess. My Trace Elliot has a graphic EQ so I could usually figure out what needed to be cut. For a quick fix the dual-band compressor has a balance control which made it easy to hold a note and tilt the frequency response.
Can fix things in a hurry.
I especially like having the lpf becaue sometimes there's ice picks coming out of a back line with a tweeter.
Also the "amp eq" on the origin bassrig works well.
Sometimes an active bass is able to fix things quickly, but only if they aren't too wrong.
Roll with a Source Audio Zio. (Or any pre pedal with a HP filter, as mentioned above. I favor the Zio in this situation because it has other simple but effective tone sculpting tools on board, plus a high quality DI)
The 3 band active eq bass is a huge Swiss Army knife.
Great advice here. All around!!
The 3 band active eq bass is a huge Swiss Army knife.
Great advice here. All around!!
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Whenever you can, step toward the audience, away from your rig, to hear how you sound from 15 or 20 feet away.
And, yes, invest in a variable high-pass filter. TalkBass member FDeck makes a great one, reasonably priced.
My solution - Read LOTS of bass amp manuals and learn how each brand typically sets up their tone stacks. For example, the Hartke LH series of heads works off the Fender tone stack. Watch out for the "Contour", "Enhance", "Ultra Low", or similar knobs that eliminate midrange frequencies. I typically defeat these switches when using someone else's rig. I also tend to adjust the remainder of the tone knobs at a more neutral setting and make sure I get the Gain set as best as I can.
Many times, I will bring my Mesa D800 and plug into the other person's cabinet. I also have my pedalboard with me. I stay away from boosting anything on the head until I get the volume loud enough. I stick to sending the pedalboard tone to the sound person and simply use the rig on stage as a monitor.
Many times, I will bring my Mesa D800 and plug into the other person's cabinet. I also have my pedalboard with me. I stay away from boosting anything on the head until I get the volume loud enough. I stick to sending the pedalboard tone to the sound person and simply use the rig on stage as a monitor.
I'm generally not too keen to use the supplied rig and many stages default to Ampeg. Hated the SVT CL and not a fan of the lll Pro pre stage or their cabs.
However a fridge forgives a lot of things.
So if the stage is rigged, then its not really practical to bring your own...which I'd always prefer to do.
New rigs, I'll do a couple of thumps, to get a feel for the lower end...smooth out the higher end and then use tone or presense to pick up what I do up there.
So, its going to be something like
bass 4, lower mid 3.5, high mid 3.5, treble 5 so I'll need the gain and master to kick in.
From there, I won't have to move too far but Ampeg, Hartke, Markbass, Ashdown etc are going to make me consider how impractical bringing my own is.
I'll give the FOH a pre signal. My basses have good pre amps too and the best pre amps I've heard out front have been Glock and Alleva Coppolo.
However a fridge forgives a lot of things.
So if the stage is rigged, then its not really practical to bring your own...which I'd always prefer to do.
New rigs, I'll do a couple of thumps, to get a feel for the lower end...smooth out the higher end and then use tone or presense to pick up what I do up there.
So, its going to be something like
bass 4, lower mid 3.5, high mid 3.5, treble 5 so I'll need the gain and master to kick in.
From there, I won't have to move too far but Ampeg, Hartke, Markbass, Ashdown etc are going to make me consider how impractical bringing my own is.
I'll give the FOH a pre signal. My basses have good pre amps too and the best pre amps I've heard out front have been Glock and Alleva Coppolo.
FullumMusic
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It's really easy and quick:
- Show up.
- Set everything to flat/Turn off all amp "features".
- Play a few notes & listen to how it sounds.
- Turn the EQ knobs to adjust the amp's tone to the tone i want; Maybe turn on features if they're what i want or need. (things like onboard compressor; bass boost; etc).
- Play a few notes to check my changes.
- Slight adjustments as needed.
- Done. Takes 30, 45 seconds?
If i need myself louder i turn up. If the band says they can't hear me i turn up. If the sound engineer asks for me to change something, i change it.
There are an infinite number of problems that could arise and most aren't so egregious a simple adjustment can't deal with it, so i worry about them only if they arise.
Nope, because it's usually not needed.
If it's a backline and a house sound engineer, they've used that amp a million times, and they're most likely tapping the DI before the amp, so the amp tone is irrelevant.
If i'm the sound engineer (because i've spent years doing live sound and production, and have a degree in audio engineering and a master's in sound design, and often get volunteered to be the one,) it's no different than sound checking with any gear. Set gain levels. Set faders for mix. Adjust for the room. Set monitor levels for each monitor mix. Done.
I never carry anything i don't need to. I'm in NYC. Most places in NYC have backlines. I am not taking an amp & cab on the subway to a gig. I'll turn down the gig if there isn't a backline. Even if i Uber i'm using what's at the venue. If the venue's gear turns out to be trash i won't play there again.
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I tend to agree with everyone here saying to keep things simple, I'll respond to the "brand" question in the OP.
After a while you get a sense of the characteristic sound and feel of different brands; two different brands set to "flat'' EQ-wise (whether all at noon or boosted/cut to remove a "baked-in scoop) will still sound different. In my head, from my experience, I think Ampegs tend to be beefy, GKs aggressive, Ashdown deep, Rumbles are bedroom tone, Hartkes too, Markbass clinical; Mesa, Genz, Berg, Quilter are solid. I've also played Peavey, Carvin, Bugera, Behringer backlines....
Although I might make adjustments, I find it best to not "fight against" whatever amp/cab, but to go with and embrace the inherent sound, even if it's different than what I'm used to hearing behind me.
After a while you get a sense of the characteristic sound and feel of different brands; two different brands set to "flat'' EQ-wise (whether all at noon or boosted/cut to remove a "baked-in scoop) will still sound different. In my head, from my experience, I think Ampegs tend to be beefy, GKs aggressive, Ashdown deep, Rumbles are bedroom tone, Hartkes too, Markbass clinical; Mesa, Genz, Berg, Quilter are solid. I've also played Peavey, Carvin, Bugera, Behringer backlines....
Although I might make adjustments, I find it best to not "fight against" whatever amp/cab, but to go with and embrace the inherent sound, even if it's different than what I'm used to hearing behind me.
I've run into this a time or 3. Backline made me cringe some. But, I was usually able to get close 1/2 way through the first hour. That was with the help of the FOH. I would tell him I was looking for his guidance. Little help from him and my ear, it usually worked out. If not, I did the best I could! Never heard a bad word.from anyone. They knew when I was working to better my sound. Bass still went thump thump and I did the best I could.
