Different tone from different wood, really?

[pappabass]

Here's another bit of evidence to add to the discussion.

I have 2 Fender Precision basses. One is MIA, the other MIM. The MIA sounds better. It also has a pickup with Alnico 5 magnets. The MIM uses Ceramic bar magnets. So could the difference be the pickups? To find out I swapped pickups keeping everything else the same. The MIA with MIM pickups still sounded better. So with the pickups still swapped, I swapped the strings on both basses. No change - the MIA still sounded better. I swapped bridges - so now I had a MIA with MIM pickups, MIM bridge and the strings from the MIM and vice versa. Still the MIA sounded better.

To be fair, the MIA sounded different than when it was all MIA parts, but the basic sound that set it apart from the MIM was still there. And the MIA parts on the MIM made some changes to the sound - not really a significant improvement, but slightly different. Still didn't compare the the MIA.

I'm not going to say what was the defining factor in the difference of these two basses, but I know what it wasn't - not the pickups, the strings nor the bridge.

Wow, really good test!

 

[TheGreatSealof]

Well, I am ready for the nukes! (disclaimer) I am not a professional musician. That being said, I have been playing guitars, bass and sixes, for my own pleasure, for some forty years on and off. I am self-taught utilizing various books and videos over the years. (I am now ducking and covering under my school desk.)

As I am sure you have surmised, I would be considered a geezer with no pro credentials. A closet player. Yes, I am. I am proud of my meager skills and knowledge regarding instrument design, functionality, quality, electronics, tonal aspects of woods, etc., to date. I play AM pass and jazz basses. Ibanez, Squire, BC Rich Mockingbird, Martin D-18, D-28, and other instruments of various quality builds.

IMHO, electronics are the sound of any electronic instrument. I could manufacture a 2x4 piece of wood into an electric guitar and most people would not know the difference, regarding sound, between a $5k boutique vs my 2x4 guitar in a blind sound test. As a matter of fact, I believe, but I could be wrong, Les Paul’s original prototype guitar was a 2x4 wired with pickups, etc. His prototype evolved into the classic Gibson guitars we all know and love.

However, the player will definitely feel the body wood vibrate as they play. Strings and body hardware connections make the wood vibrate. The wood does not produce the sound coming out of the speaker cabs. The electronics produce the sound. Yes, it is fun to feel the body and neck vibrate as you play.

Yes, there are hollow bodied instruments that produce a different feel and slight tonal sound differences. But they produce such tones because of the hardware. i.e., a Hofner Beatle bass (real Hofner hollow body). The string height and sliding wood bridge presents a similar tone to an upright bass as the string vibrations in connection with the sliding bridge physically vibrate the hollow body wood. But it is still and electric instrument.

Acoustic guitar sound and tone is most certainly produced from the woods that they are made of. Wood selection is definitely the sound or voice of any acoustic guitar. However, when you plug an electrified acoustic guitar or bass into an amp, what is the point? It is just another electrified instrument.

Let the fireworks begin!

 

[Element Zero]

I think the title to your thread already answered the question that you don’t teally want to believe in anyway.

Thread closed.

 

[CapnSev]

 

[bucephylus]

Oh, heck.

This topic comes up repeatedly; because, in fact, it is a really good question. As participants in TB, we all just need to maintain respectful responses.

There have already been some great responses. The electric bass guitar has nuances in its construction; such that materials of construction will “make a difference” to an experienced player, and will specifically differentiate individual instruments.

Wood is an extremely complex engineering material, with properties that continue to evolve as time passes for a long time. The neck and materials used in the neck’s construction can have a very noticeable effect to the player’s perception of the instrument’s response. But, at the same time , the strings, pickups, and signal path will dominate what the crowd hears; especially true for non- musician listeners.

So, you see, both views of the importance of “different woods” can be true, with no contradiction.

Yup; interesting topic. One about which we should be able to hold civil discussions.

 

[brianrost]

IMHO, electronics are the sound of any electronic instrument. Wood selection is definitely the sound or voice of any acoustic guitar. However, when you plug an electrified acoustic guitar or bass into an amp, what is the point? It is just another electrified instrument.

Let the fireworks begin!

Sorry, you are dead wrong. While the electronics color the tone, the acoustic properties of the instrument still matter. I play string bass, and have the exact same pickup on my two basses. I use the same amplification chain for both...so the electronics are identical. They sound different unamplified and that difference is still audible when they are amplified.

 

[Turnaround]

The wood does not produce the sound coming out of the speaker cabs.

You clearly have missed the other discussions that have occurred on TB about the contribution of the wood to the sound of an electric instrument. And you are right - the wood does not produce the sound coming out of the cabs. But the wood does contribute to how the string vibrates. String, body and hardware all couple to form a vibrating system. The nature of that vibration is affected by each component. If something in that system, aside from the string, absorbs a particular frequency, that frequency will be suppressed in the rest of the system, including the string. And since the pickup only "sees" the string, it will not see the suppressed frequency. Regardless of how the sound is captured, the system as a whole will have vibration characteristics that will vary with every change to the system. The degree of change to the sound from the change of any one component may be subtle, but it's there.

One sure indicator that the wood makes a difference is something we see all too often - dead spots. When you hit the resonant frequency of the instrument's body, much of the energy of the string is absorbed by the body, leaving less energy in the string to keep it vibrating. If you change the resonant frequency by adding mass like a Fat Finger, the frequency shifts and that note is no longer dead.

 

[Joma3]

Without trying to sound too naive...

Surely the sound coming out of a bass is from the strings vibrating, and being picked up by the pickups.

Where does the wood of the body, or even the neck, come into this mix? as-in, realistically, and humanly-detectable.

I currently have an Ibanez active bass (SDGR) which has been great for a good couple of years now, but I'm keen on getting a p-bass (prob a special with the additional jazz pickup), and been eyeing up some Squiers on ebay.

The 2 big questions are, a) will I really notice much difference between a Squier p-bass and my ibanez active bass, and b) is there going to be much between a custom Fender and a Squier Affinity (granted I don't think you can get an affinity with a jazz pickup).

Hopefully the answer is "unless you're filling Wembley or Madison Square Garden everynight, you can get most tones out of most basses.

(I'll still get the p-bass regardless - just want to know whether I'll be blown away by the sound difference or not).

Cheers,
Rob

The biggest difference will be when you go to sell one of them...at which point that bass will be the the best you've ever played, that plays like butter, and cuts through the mix like no other.

 

[5StringBlues]

What's the best popcorn for tonewood threads?

 

[Bassist30]

I never heard or read that a bass /guitar luthier thinks the wood is not a significant contributor to the instruments tone.

 

[James Collins]

In order, the factors that affect the tone of the bass (excluding amp and mixing):
1) player technique and ability
2) pickups
3) playing environment
4) quality of construction the bass, e.g. bolt on vs neck through vs hollow vs semi hollow
5) neck wood and fretboard
6) body wood
7) connections to amp/sound board
8) audience

You left off:
9) Strings (material and construction)
10) scale length
11) fret, nut, and bridge material
12) string action
13) pickup location
14) picking location
15) relative humidity
16) neutrino flux

 

[knight of ni]

Discussing about 'tone' as an absolute character is a mistake IMO.
-A bass is not just a tone but also a "playability" (action, ease of play, PUPs characteristics, etc).
-Depending on playability your plucking style will be able to get most of the bass (or not).
A bass is a whole you cannot just isolate tone as a single result of wood or electronics. Otherwise we'd all have Squiers stuffed with Sadowsky electronics.
Finally, talking about wood, which one ? And when I mean which one I do not mean which specie but specie, (mean) density, dryness (and how it's been dried). I'm not saying specie doesn't matter (to me there is a difference between rosewood and maple fingerboard) but I guess that wood sourcing would make a difference in repetability between a cheap instrument and a more expensive one. Then again bass makers aren't wizards and I suppose some variation on high end basses is also to be expected but hopefully marginally...

With due respect to OP, this thread looks more like another : "If I'm not really serious about playing bass can I get away with a cheap one ?". Being "seriously playing bass" is not in direct relation to filling Wembley stadium. In fact sound is so poor is those arenas that I guess any bass would more or less sound the same. Closet players can be very serious about playing bass. The good news is that you can find very good cheap basses (that is to say playable) even if generally speaking there's a reason why a bass is more expensive than another one. The best 'bang for your buck' is a personal judgement depending on the compromises you're ready to accept.

 

[Turnaround]

What's the best popcorn for tonewood threads?

Orville Rickenbacker. Or Redenbacher. I always get those two mixed up.

 

[bucephylus]

Orville Rickenbacker. Or Redenbacher. I always get those two mixed up.

I like the Popcornopolis Zebra. It’s an addiction. Do my best to avoid it. Too good.

 

[GBBSbassist]

Now imagine if you mounted the strings to a Titanium one-piece body, surely they would resonate brightly.
The woods are just every variation in between.

Is titanium the best wood for metal?!?!

 

[GIBrat51]

What's the best popcorn for tonewood threads?

I prefer this kind. And around here? Even the 40 bag jumbo box doesn't last very long...

And, my 2 cents worth? Being a retired engineer, with many year's experience in testing labs, makes these "what's the difference/does this affect..?" threads hard to take after a while. And, yeah, I know... I could just not read them. But, I've also been an instructor for many things, for many years, too; and it's .. hard... to ignore these, most times. So.. here goes. Yes, different wood "really" matters. EVERYTHING "really" matters. Every time, all the time. The only real questions are: how much does one thing matter, compared to all the other variables, and; how much does it matter to you? In the case of a solid body bass' "tone wood" body? Yeah, it matters - a little. Compared to the pickups; the bridge; the strings; and the electronics, on a bass like that? "Tone wood" doesn't matter much at all. Can you hear the differences? Maybe... I'm sure the differences could be measured in a testing lab - if somebody had the time and money to waste. Some people say they can hear the differences; I take people at their word, until they prove to me that I shouldn't. If it matters to you, then, yes it matters - to the extent of how strongly you feel about it. Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I didn't buy a 4003 Rick, for example, because it's made of maple instead of swamp ash. I bought it because I wanted a Rick. It is what it is; same as all my other basses. As long as they're structurally sound (which really does matter), I'm happy; they simply are what they are...

 

[Edarnott]

Think of a sound room with regards to what the body material is made of, soft wood will assorb the vibrations of the string, a hard wood will help reflect the vibrations, same as a neck thru will help sustain vs a bolt on. Just my opinion. Lol

 

[DigitalMan]

I have two basses that are in theory the same, down to the wood, pickups, and setup.

They sound different.

You would never tell from a double blind test.

Why? Because when I play them I know what I want them to sound like, and I play to get the tone in my head. One bass requires a considerably different effort to get that sound than the other.

As players we experience a feedback loop that is both tactile and audible.

I take it from all these tonewood threads that the degree to which people experience these kinds of nuances differ from one person to the next.

 

[REV]

Like Digital Man, I have what amount to two identical P basses. Same body wood, both have maple necks and the same pickups and same type / brand strings. They sound different from each other when played unamplified. One is brighter with a little more sustain. This bass "speaks" a little different than the other one when played through an amp. I don't think anyone in the audience could tell the difference between the two but I can. The brighter one is a little easier to play, I feel like I end up working harder when I play the other one.

 

[soulman969]

Different basses with completely different bodies, neck, pickups, bridges, and electronics, etc are bound to sound somewhat different. How much different is for you to judge not us Robsco. It's you playing them and your ears hearing them.