Digital AMPEG Head Coming?

[bucephylus]

….The grind and overdrive you get from an SVT along with the natural glassy highs and real tube compression is something that the 7 Pro will NEVER be able to achieve. It's just not possible...

I hear this kind of statement a bunch with reference to “tubes and heavy iron;” but, I have to say that when I consider my playing time on SVT’s, grind, overdrive, and compression are wholly unrelated to any sounds that I go for with the SVT. I much more associate the SVT with undistorted slam; like hitting a granite boulder with a sludge hammer.

And, so part of the problem is that we all use these amps in different ways.

You may indeed be coaxing grind and overdriven sounds out of your SVT, and be unable to get those sounds out of the newer amp technologies. But, the sounds I use in an SVT, which I very much admire, can readily be had from newer amp technologies. My Demeter VTBP-201 into a QSC GX7 does every bit of what I get from an SVT; and then some. My Mesa TT800 does enough of it by itself to be useful. Etc.

Point is that there is no absolute truth. We are all very different players doing different things with our signal chains. What may be true for one is not true for all.

In terms of modeling; I just don’t have a reason to go there. But, again, that’s me. Someone else will come along and take that somewhere new, and there may be a whole new thing. Just part of the deal.

 

[gstaats]

Personally, I am apprehensive about how well companies will transition from being analog/amp companies to essentially building embedded systems for musicians, and supporting those systems. Beyond the actual manufacturer's ability to support them, I highly doubt the component manufacturers will keep supplies running for decades like we're used to for analog devices. I also highly doubt the manufacturers will keep drivers, firmware, security updates and interface updates up for as long as the devices could actually be useful.

We'll probably see planned obsolescence of equipment, much like smart phones. My tech mentioned last time I had my SVT-3 pro that stays at my church in for service it is harder to find parts. When my old SVT-III needed service, it was hard to track down an authentic set of bipolar transistors. But - that is a 30 year old amp. The SVT 3 pro is a mid-90's blue script model.

While I'm not in the camp of "tubes can't be beat" (Love my B-15R... Have an ammo can of tubes for it too and use it daily), with (some amps) their simplistic design and non-exotic components, it isn't out of the question for it to remain in service as longas I can find a tech to work on it. While I like it, I'm not gigging it and I'm not taking it to rehearsals.

My pedalboard (analog fx + mesa subway DI+ preamp pedal), crown xls-1502 amp and barefaced cabs get the nod to schlep around. Light weight, great tone and super easy to run amp'd, ampless with wedges or ampless with IEMs. Some version of that or digital amps is prolly going to be much more common in the future. Can't beat IEMs really - hearing protection + superb monitoring all in one unit. Win win. Amps may still be needed when there is no PA, but, I would almost rather go DI with a band using modelers and have a near silent stage, except drums (unless edrum), and have a great mix coming through the PA than the normal noise fest that small bands typically turn a bar into. Invest the money in a couple good mains and a sub or two instead of amps. Give the audience what they really want - a good mix.

 

[kevmac]

With all the great preamp pedals available I think a dedicated high watt, low weight power amp is needed.

 

[Daniel Piper]

Always an interesting discussion. Always ends up in a personal decision to "prefer the sound of iron and tubes" or modelling.

The clincher for me on the topic of "how close is modelling to the real thing" is bands like Metallica, who are 100% Fractal nowadays, and Megadeth (100% quad cortex) who have moved completely digital. There are many, many bands in that category playing to hundreds of thousands of people a year being completely digital live. I have run into no complaints about their tone(s).

Studio - thats probably a very different story there.

I run as simple as possible, as I hate menu diving with a passion. That rules out many of the more complex modellers for me.

 

[Ric Vice]

With all the great preamp pedals available I think a dedicated high watt, low weight power amp is needed.

Jule Monique builds several of them
they are not cheap by any means. The 500 watt Simone is his lightest at 3 lbs Just my take.

 

[SLPimp]

I'd just welcome a light weight class d PRO head that's reliable.

 

[silky smoove]

I'd just welcome a light weight class d PRO head that's reliable.

Good news. There are many.

 

[SLPimp]

Good news. There are many.

But I meant from Ampeg.

 

[silky smoove]

But I meant from Ampeg.

By all accounts their current lineup is perfectly reliable.

 

[JimmyM]

But I meant from Ampeg.

No amp has a 0% spotless failure rate, but Ampeg’s problems with the two problem class D amps have been fixed for years now.

So I could get behind an amp with the SVT Suite as the pre, but I would like to see how it’s implemented before committing to it. Got no philosophical problems with it, though.

 

[baxter_x]

But I meant from Ampeg.

Well .... The svt 7 pro.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

In my experience I would say that the pros/cons of modelling amps vs tube amps are:

Pros:

-Weight.
-Fast setup.
-Cost.
-Lots of different amps/tones in one amp.
-The best modelling amps sound great.
-Silent recording.

Cons:

-Even though some of them SOUND great I have yet to play a modelling amp that "feels" right dynamically to me. They don't seem to make the speaker react the same way to my playing as with real tube amps.

-Sometimes I feel like I'm playing an "idealized" recording of an amp, rather than a real amp.

-Not possible to set the bias to my taste, not possible to tweak the tone using different tubes.

-The danger of sounding like everyone else. Some of the quirky amps I like to use for recording will NEVER be available in a modelling amp.

-A slightly out of spec/malfunctioning amp can often add some character to a recording, like the microphonic tube that makes the amp squeal with feedback, the noisy tremolo circuit that goes chug-chug even when the tremolo is switched off, the horrible cheap sounding spring reverb that can add some character to the right song or the amp that just keeps sounding "hotter" the warmer it gets. Even just a bit of excessive hiss can do wonders to make a recording sound more "organic".

-I wouldn't trust a modelling amp to last much beyond the warranty period. If the model is discontinued and no longer supported you may not be able to get it fixed if/when it breaks. I don't like buying equipment that I suspect will be obsolete within 5-10 years. It feels more like buying a laptop than buying a bass amp. A real tube amp can usually be repaired by any decent local tech and will last practically forever if it's taken good care of and serviced when needed. In fact, if an amp can't be fixed locally it's a dealbreaker for me. I've seen far too many guitar/bass players be without their amps for MONTHS even when it's still under warranty because the manufacturer's support is useless and the amp can't be fixed by a local tech. Some manufacturers offer better support than others of course but I wouldn't expect lifetime support for ANY modelling amp.

-Modelling amps will always be a copy of the original and not the real thing.

And I like the SMELL of tube amps. Modelling amps smell like computers.

 

[baxter_x]

-Even though some of them SOUND great I have yet to play a modelling amp that "feels" right dynamically to me. They don't seem to make the speaker react the same way to my playing as with real tube amps.

I played a several times with my axe FX in a power amp and a cab and felt it was exactly the same a a real amp. But it requires a lot of time and tweaking.

 

[txhawaii]

Beyond the actual manufacturer's ability to support them, I highly doubt the component manufacturers will keep supplies running for decades like we're used to for analog devices. I also highly doubt the manufacturers will keep drivers, firmware, security updates and interface updates up for as long as the devices could actually be useful.

We'll probably see planned obsolescence of equipment, much like smart phones.

Very accurate description of a possible future. Ampeg D v1. Two years later Ampeg D v2. Two years later Ampeg D v3. None compatible with each other and likely becoming useless with every new computer as well. Just a heap of digital garbage in our tech nightmare piling up next to the blu rays and dvd players.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I played a several times with my axe FX in a power amp and a cab and felt it was exactly the same a a real amp. But it requires a lot of time and tweaking.

To be honest I've never had the patience to go that deep into a modelling amp. I should probably have added "menu diving" to my list of cons. I want an amp to be more plug&play. But I guess the use of presets will do that, if you take the time to tweak the settings.

This is just a matter of personal preference/workflow of course. I very much enjoy mixing in a digital environment but I want to keep everything as analog as possible before it hits the converters, including the use of rack gear for processing. I firmly believe in "committing" to a sound when recording and I like physical knobs/faders/meters. I've seen far too many amazing recordings end up in nothing and band members falling out due to endless tweaking at the mixing stage.

Using modelling gear on stage is a different matter of course. But I'm generally not a big fan of using presets so I would still want an amp to sound/feel great without the need to dive deep into menus/settings.

 

[paskisti]

Modeling could be done easy way too. Ampeg could make it so that front panel has standard control knobs but their range varies with the modeling. Quite many Ampeg amps have very similar controls so it should be doable and this way it would be user friendly.

 

[baxter_x]

To be honest I've never had the patience to go that deep into a modelling amp. I should probably have added "menu diving" to my list of cons. I want an amp to be more plug&play. But I guess the use of presets will do that, if you take the time to tweak the settings.

This is just a matter of personal preference/workflow of course. I very much enjoy mixing in a digital environment but I want to keep everything as analog as possible before it hits the converters, including the use of rack gear for processing. I firmly believe in "committing" to a sound when recording and I like physical knobs/faders/meters. I've seen far too many amazing recordings end up in nothing and band members falling out due to endless tweaking at the mixing stage.

Using modelling gear on stage is a different matter of course. But I'm generally not a big fan of using presets so I would still want an amp to sound/feel great without the need to dive deep into menus/settings.

I agree with your post. To le, a digital stuff can perfectly replicate pretty much any amp, cab. However, it does require a big amount of time and tweaking. Which actually something I like.
So not a big deal for me.
However, if you are after some plug and play stuff, it is the worst thing you could come across.
I don't use my axe FX anymore onstage, only my svt7.

 

[Honkey tonk]

Be all set with a virtual bass ...

 

[ga_edwards]

They should just release a SVT Suite version on Helix hardware.
Line 6 has the talent to do this right.

Most of it is in the Helix already. We already have the SVT4Pro and a couple of SVT classic models (not to mention a B15 that isn't in the suite software). The last update even added a couple of pedals too (Liquifier, Optocomp and Scrambler). Whilst there's only a couple of ampeg cabs in the helix, there is a full suite of mic options.

Considering the heritage and ownership of the brands, I don't think it will be too long until the entire suite is added to the Helix platform.

 

[ga_edwards]

How would this work? An amp with wifi that would allow you to download SVT suite (and other pay to play plugins) and get all the sounds of Ampeg in one digital box?

great way to drive up revenue.

subscriptions, artist release downloads, year specific amps, etc

ver1, ver2, and on and on and on

Honestly, I doubt they would charge for new software features. If the Line 6 model was followed, Yamaha would be simply release free firmware updates on a semi-regular basis.