Digital IEMs - who makes them? Anyone?

[rob2966]

Hey all,

So, just as a quick background, I use a Shure GLXD16 digital wireless unit on my bass which I absolutely love. It is extremely clean, doesn't drop out, and most of all, the Tx pack has a rechargable Li-Ion battery with 16hrs of battery life...brilliant. It is also very nicely priced.

I am looking for essentially the same type of setup, but in a wireless IEM system and can't seem to find anything, from any manufacturer. Basically, I want clean, digital wireless, and I would want a rechargable Rx pack (preferably Li-Ion).

Am I just overlooking something obvious? If not, is there a reason I can't find such an item?

Thanks
Rob

 

[s0c9]

There's digital inbound.. but I have not encountered a digital (as in 2.4Ghz) IEM system..
There's probably a technical reason for that.. I would assume because there's only 11 channels in the 2.4Ghz USA spectrum (14 channels in the range) and it's getting VERY crowded.
All IEM systems I have researched are now in the 400-600 Mhz range.. with "bands" in each.. A, G, J, K, L, H and so on.. that occupy specific frequencies..
I don't know of a digital IEM system.. I can imagine separation would get ugly REAL FAST if you a have a 15-piece band with only 11 open channels, and you have inbound mics, ios/android devices connecting, and IEM's and so on all going.. big MESS !!

 

[WayneP]

Not to mention, the 2.4 GHz band is the domain of “consumer land” - wireless network routers, cordless phones, and who knows what all else. Wouldn’t be much fun playing in a venue where their routers disrupted your signal and caused it to drop. Actually, there’s a chance it can happen to your GLX at some point.

Shure, Sennheiser et. al. IEM systems are top shelf. If they’re good enough for touring pros you’ll be happy with them too.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
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[rob2966]

I would think the same issues/concerns would affect instrument wireless (however, yes, there would be less wireless instruments on stage).

Later
Rob

 

[seamonkey]

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[walterw]

my guess is that the latency issue is what's keeping purely digital IEMs from being a thing. a few ms delay from an instrument is no big deal, but any latency in earbuds can get "phasey" with your internal bone conduction of your voice (especially added on top of the latency of a digital mixing board).

that said, 2.4GHz digital wireless mics are a thing and don't seem to be a problem, so what do i know?

 

[mrufino1]

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I have this and it is cool, latency is not an issue. But, it has to be line of sight. I hang the transmitter on our lighting tree but in certain rooms with lots of wifi going on I run a long xlr and get it closer to me (then it's in mono, but better than it cutting out). I've been using it on gigs almost a year and is been good overall.

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

my guess is that the latency issue is what's keeping purely digital IEMs from being a thing. a few ms delay from an instrument is no big deal, but any latency in earbuds can get "phasey" with your internal bone conduction of your voice (especially added on top of the latency of a digital mixing board).

Latency may be an issue, but note that added IEM latency in the range of "a few ms" should not be a problem; the sound from your "normal" wedges takes 5-10 ms to reach your ears.

This is a common mistake people do when discussing the importance of low latency interfaces, they tend to forget that we easily adjust to varying distances to our sound sources (e.g. plying bass directly in studio headphones with ~0ms latency or on a huge stage with 6 meters to my amp stack, with a resulting delay of 18 ms).

 

[walterw]

Latency may be an issue, but note that added IEM latency in the range of "a few ms" should not be a problem; the sound from your "normal" wedges takes 5-10 ms to reach your ears.

i don't think that's the same issue, the time delay of sound through air is something our brains naturally deal with all the time, even making use of it for spatial cues.

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

i don't think that's the same issue, the time delay of sound through air is something our brains naturally deal with all the time, even making use of it for spatial cues.

OK? So the brain interprets the delay differently (even if the exact same number of milliseconds) depending on if the sound travels through air or through a cable? Hmmm...

And, yes absolutely, the spatial cues are extremely important and the basis for some of the common stereo micing techniques, utilizing difference in time between left and right ear. But using IEMs we already traded that sense of room for the convenience of personal mix and comfortable sound levels.

 

[seamonkey]

A brain can be trained for reasonable latency
Then there is the "occlusion effect"
Which is really just like putting your finger in your ear and singing. A good deep tight seal on the IEM can help minimize this.

 

[walterw]

OK? So the brain interprets the delay differently (even if the exact same number of milliseconds) depending on if the sound travels through air or through a cable? Hmmm...

of course!

through the air you're hearing it "located" in the room, with slight time differences to each ear and all sorts of other reflections and whatnot that all change when you turn your head, all of which the brain easily processes to determine where and how far away the source is.

in IEMs it's just right there in your ears, slightly out of phase with the sound of your voice you're hearing through bone conduction. i've even heard about big name acts who tour with an analog monitor board for their IEM system just to avoid the effect.

(my own experience with analog IEMs into digital boards is that i don't notice any issue when singing, so who knows? maybe it's just that internal latency of typical digital boards is less than typical digital wireless stuff.)

 

[s0c9]

(my own experience with analog IEMs into digital boards is that i don't notice any issue when singing, so who knows? maybe it's just that internal latency of typical digital boards is less than typical digital wireless stuff.)

Likewise... I've never noticed any delay, but I don't have bone conduction happening either.. and nor should one have any with properly fitting custom IEM's.

 

[walterw]

Likewise... I've never noticed any delay, but I don't have bone conduction happening either.. and nor should one have any with properly fitting custom IEM's.

really?

i've never used custom molds, but i thought that was still an issue, unless you cranked them to the point of blasting past the bone conduction which makes me worry that it's too loud.

 

[s0c9]

really?

i've never used custom molds, but i thought that was still an issue, unless you cranked them to the point of blasting past the bone conduction which makes me worry that it's too loud.

Nope.. I've owned a couple of sets over the last 5 yrs.. literally hundreds of gigs with them. .and NOT one instance of conduction.
That would drive me crazy when singing if it did..
I'd guess the conduction comes from universals where one is cramming them in to get the seal.. I have had it happen with universals, but never with my customs. . As I said.. I believe (guess??) their design inherently prevents conduction
Sounds logical tho'.. even if not accurate !! LOL

 

[walterw]

I'd guess the conduction comes from universals where one is cramming them in to get the seal.. I have had it happen with universals, but never with my customs. .

what does that mean exactly?

what were you hearing with the universals that you'd call "conduction" that you didn't hear with the custom molds?

 

[s0c9]

what does that mean exactly?

what were you hearing with the universals that you'd call "conduction" that you didn't hear with the custom molds?

on bone conduction.. the topic you were talking about
And it's not like it was constant with universals.. occasional occurrence only based on fit, etc.