Digital mixer conundrum

[s0c9]

I have had regular issues with losing wireless connectivity between the X18 and my router, but that might have to do with DHCP lease times and I may just need to assign it a dedicated IP address. But, the saving grace is that the board keeps working even if I can't make changes, so it doesn't interupt anything.

Yes, a STATIC IP is the way to go.
For wireless access to be more reliable, you want to use a dual-band router, stay off the terribly crowded 2.4Ghz band and only use 5Ghz. One advantage to doing so, is that all your connected devices will not be competing for frequencies that your bandmates pedalboard wireless units are trying to use.

There ARE other things you can do to improve reliability too.
Turn OFF SSID broadcast and set your router's DHCP range to something other than the default 192.168.1.* block - for example, use 192.168.25.* and assign the X18 an IP of 192.168.25.125, limit the # of connections to 30 and set your DHCP range to start at 192.168.25.50
NOTHING will interfere with your private network if you configure it like that.
Oh, and don't forget to use appropriate security (WPA2 or better) to secure your network in case someone accidentally "finds" it..

Wireless devices (phones!!) scanning for connections, typically look for 192.168.1.1 IP's (the default IP on many, many routers), and this requires the router to reject or accept and/or broadcast its security levels, etc. If you take if off the default range, you'll remove most interference.

There are other - more in depth - changes you can make, such as reducing the routers transmit power level. The average band router doesn't need to cover the entire building.. just your "area".

 

[lakefx]

Yes, a STATIC IP is the way to go.
For wireless access to be more reliable, you want to use a dual-band router, stay off the terribly crowded 2.4Ghz band and only use 5Ghz. One advantage to doing so, is that all your connected devices will not be competing for frequencies that your bandmates pedalboard wireless units are trying to use.

There ARE other things you can do to improve reliability too.
Turn OFF SSID broadcast and set your router's DHCP range to something other than the default 192.168.1.* block - for example, use 192.168.25.* and assign the X18 an IP of 192.168.25.125, limit the # of connections to 30 and set your DHCP range to start at 192.168.25.50
NOTHING will interfere with your private network if you configure it like that.
Oh, and don't forget to use appropriate security (WPA2 or better) to secure your network in case someone accidentally "finds" it..

Wireless devices (phones!!) scanning for connections, typically look for 192.168.1.1 IP's (the default IP on many, many routers), and this requires the router to reject or accept and/or broadcast its security levels, etc. If you take if off the default range, you'll remove most interference.

There are other - more in depth - changes you can make, such as reducing the routers transmit power level. The average band router doesn't need to cover the entire building.. just your "area".

Good suggestions. I haven't fixed my issues because so far I only have used the X18 at home for rehearsal and recording. The X18 is the only device in my house that has these connectivity issues, so I suspect that it has to do with the apps only checking the IP address at load. I'm going to go assign a dedicated IP for my X18 in my router's DHCP table right now to see if that fixes things over the next few weeks.

 

[4Mal]

If your 16.4.2 is locking up. You have a configuration error somewhere. My guess is the FireWire on the laptop. I ran a 16.4.2 close to 5 years without lockups. MacBookmd th stepped up to an MB Pro. The only time I had lock ups was early with Lenovo and with A Dell where the 1394 chip set was not compatible. Later One of my engineers had issues as he insisted on using the RCA in for his break music device... known issues there when using the Load presets into the fat channel...

For me, with the Mac's the 16.4.2 was solid as a rock.

I upgraded to a Soundcraft SI Expression 3 last season... ain't no goin' home now. That board rocks!

I run a dl-1608 for my band where I mix from stage. It totally works for me...

 

[DirtDog]

Thanks for the ongoing input everyone.

With both the Presonus and the Behringer, I've been using an exteranl dual band router in 5GHz mode. Seems pretty flawless with the Behringer, but less so with Presonus (due to the firewire connection between mixer and laptop (macBook Pro) and then laptop to router. The times when the Presonus hung was when the laptop was connected via firewire. There's a few internal board settings for firewire connection that could be problematic, but I also learned that FW is not a plug and play situation like USB is - you have connect and then power up devices. But even then, still not stable and not something I want to deal with in the middle of a show regardless if I am playing or just doing sound. I still like most of the workflow on the Presonus, but missing that remote control functionality.

I'll look into the static IP when I use the Behringer and also use security.

I've had many years working with DAWs of various type and it's not purely the software control that makes me less than confident (although, some controls buried levels deep in menus is a drawback).

And roger that on compression, EQ, processing, etc. Light touch. Easy does it.

 

[4Mal]

You really do have an issue somewhere in there. I ran that setup a long time without lockups. I ran netgear routers, connected to my MacBook Pro, FireWire 800 to 400 cable. Always fired up the Mac and router. Let that fully boot and then the board. No issues.

What brand router and is it a quality cable ?

 

[DirtDog]

You really do have an issue somewhere in there. I ran that setup a long time without lockups. I ran netgear routers, connected to my MacBook Pro, FireWire 800 to 400 cable. Always fired up the Mac and router. Let that fully boot and then the board. No issues.

What brand router and is it a quality cable ?

Yeah, not sure what to troubleshoot as far as computer/router/mixer internals.

I'm running a D-Link router into a 2011 MacBook Pro connected to the 16.4.2 with a couple of different 800 to 400 FW cables. Might have to experiment to see if one of these cables is not up to the job.

 

[4Mal]

I recall reading paper about optomizing your Mac for audio a long time ago. It might have come from the presonus site...

An option I don't like but have seen done - I've done it myself in a pinch.. setup a wireless network lan on your mac and skip the router entirely. Connect the iPad to that. It pulls the router and Ethernet cable out of the equation and so may help isolate the real issue...

 

[Salicete]

hey ya'll.

My band upgraded from a powered mixer in a box and crappy speakers just about a year ago when I purchased a Presonus SL16.4.2. and some powered mains and monitors (EV and Mackie). We have used this setup at over 25 gigs since then. It's performed well enough but one of it's shortcomings is the dodgy wireless remote setup with the mixer - this non-AI unit needs a laptop AND and external router to work - and even then, the whole thing was not that stable. The board would freeze if there were wireless issues. And of course, the board would freeze at the most inopportune moments. I'm doing sound from stage, playing bass and singing. So stuff like this is a challenge and can be stressful for no good reason.

So, in the last month I've been investigating alternatives and ended up with a Behringer XR16 - seemed like a better choice for wireless (and it has proved to be more stable than the SL16.4.2) AND has a minimal form factor. Deployed this on our second last gig and we had horrendous sound issues (feedback, weird artifacts, difficulties dialling in AUX mixes, etc) so again, my confidence in the digital solution was not inspired (pilot error was a factor, though).

Played a gig this past weekend with a lower end analog board with the house PA and the boys said it was the best sound that we've had in a while. Reading through the lines here, I'm guessing they aren't all that happy with the results we've been getting with the digital stuff that I've sunk a couple of grand into. They didn't seem to miss the custom AUX mixes, channel dynamics controls and all the other goodies on the Presonus and Behringer mixers.

I'm at the point where I'm questioning the utility of staying digital vs taking a step back and going with a quality, yet compact, analog board. A big part of that is the workflow - with the digitial system, there are a ton of things that can be tweaked, so a ton of things that could potentially go wrong - many of which I have trouble dealing with while playing bass. With an analog system, the variables are reduced signficantly Another factor is that with an analog system, anyone in the band can do sound easily where with the digital system(s), there's a significant learning curve that not everyone is willing to invest time into. I'll also be the first to admit that there's been a lot of pilot error on my part in deploying these digital solutions.

I suppose one solution would be to use the SL16.4.2 standalone and dispense with the wireless functionality, but the 16.4.2 is a pretty big and heavy board compared to something like a Soundcraft 16 channel analog board.

So - TL;DR. Digital mixers have proven to be far from flawless performers in our experience. For a weekend warrior bar band, are we better off with a decent quality analog mixer with basic FX and routing capabilites?

I see this is a sort of old thread, but if anyone is considering Presonus, run away; don't walk away.

I've had two come factory-fresh broken. One with inoperative AUX outputs and one with zero output, period.

I really should have researched them better, but a friend had a 16.4.2 and liked it so I tried a 16.4.2 AI, ~big mistake.~ I think they are just pushing technology out the door that even they have clearly not mastered. These things are not unlike a new OS that needs numerous patches right off the bat just to limp along.

If you look around a bit on the Internet you will find all sorts of horror stories about piddling technical issues, poor QC, freezes, bricking and other assorted things you just don't want to deal with.

For the no-pic-no-mixer crowd, my latest Presonus brick. Its going back tomorrow.

 

[s0c9]

I see this is a sort of old thread, but if anyone is considering Presonus, run away; don't walk away.

I've had two come factory-fresh broken. One with inoperative AUX outputs and one with zero output, period.

Conversely, I have an original 16.4.2 (not AI) that has performed flawlessly for the last 6 (?) yrs thru numerous gigs. Yes, I had issues with firewire [global] compatibility at first, but worked thru them. The console has been fine and has had all firmware fixes applied...

Yes, I frequent their support forums, but folks don't go to those sections of vendor sites to sing praises. IME - If they were as bad as claimed, they would not still be in business.

 

[Salicete]

Conversely, I have an original 16.4.2 (not AI) that has performed flawlessly for the last 6 (?) yrs thru numerous gigs. Yes, I had issues with firewire [global] compatibility at first, but worked thru them. The console has been fine and has had all firmware fixes applied...

Yes, I frequent their support forums, but folks don't go to those sections of vendor sites to sing praises. IME - If they were as bad as claimed, they would not still be in business.

I am only speaking from my personal experience. One slip-up I can understand, but two in two weeks, come on.


Yes, they are still in business, for now.


I suspect the issue is the Chinese manufacturing process.

 

[DirtDog]

I wonder if you're having electrostatic discharge issues IF you're running your mixer on that carpeted surface?

I see this is a sort of old thread, but if anyone is considering Presonus, run away; don't walk away.

I've had two come factory-fresh broken. One with inoperative AUX outputs and one with zero output, period.

I really should have researched them better, but a friend had a 16.4.2 and liked it so I tried a 16.4.2 AI, ~big mistake.~ I think they are just pushing technology out the door that even they have clearly not mastered. These things are not unlike a new OS that needs numerous patches right off the bat just to limp along.

If you look around a bit on the Internet you will find all sorts of horror stories about piddling technical issues, poor QC, freezes, bricking and other assorted things you just don't want to deal with.

For the no-pic-no-mixer crowd, my latest Presonus brick. Its going back tomorrow.

 

[Salicete]

I don't think so, but it is worth looking into.


I'd likely still go through with the return, as that would be an awfully finicky device to brick itself over that.

 

[BJMtz]

I just recently bought a digital mixer (Behringer XR12) and have only used it for a couple of rehearsals but I will be using it out on a gig tonight. Setup was pretty easy and painless and I think my band has never sounded better. We only use it for vocals though. There are a lot of features that can get overwhelming but I use a lot of the preset vocal settings for things like compression and gate. We only run 1 monitor so not much hassle there.

We'll see how it goes tonight but so far I'm very happy with the purchase. I run it with passive speakers and a power amp for the mains and the monitor is powered.

 

[s0c9]

I am only speaking from my personal experience. One slip-up I can understand, but two in two weeks, come on.


Yes, they are still in business, for now.


I suspect the issue is the Chinese manufacturing process.

agreed.. maybe it was a bad batch of components that were used.. that CAN happen..
good luck tho'.
I have no affiliation w/ Presonus. I simply wanted to offer another perspective.

 

[the explode man]

Yes, a STATIC IP is the way to go.

There are other - more in depth - changes you can make, such as reducing the routers transmit power level. The average band router doesn't need to cover the entire building.. just your "area".

I just wanted to reply to this to save your post - our band just recently got an X32R, so I may throw some questions at you down the line.

 

[lakefx]

Yes, a STATIC IP is the way to go.
For wireless access to be more reliable, you want to use a dual-band router, stay off the terribly crowded 2.4Ghz band and only use 5Ghz. One advantage to doing so, is that all your connected devices will not be competing for frequencies that your bandmates pedalboard wireless units are trying to use.

There ARE other things you can do to improve reliability too.
Turn OFF SSID broadcast and set your router's DHCP range to something other than the default 192.168.1.* block - for example, use 192.168.25.* and assign the X18 an IP of 192.168.25.125, limit the # of connections to 30 and set your DHCP range to start at 192.168.25.50
NOTHING will interfere with your private network if you configure it like that.
Oh, and don't forget to use appropriate security (WPA2 or better) to secure your network in case someone accidentally "finds" it..

Wireless devices (phones!!) scanning for connections, typically look for 192.168.1.1 IP's (the default IP on many, many routers), and this requires the router to reject or accept and/or broadcast its security levels, etc. If you take if off the default range, you'll remove most interference.

There are other - more in depth - changes you can make, such as reducing the routers transmit power level. The average band router doesn't need to cover the entire building.. just your "area".

I used my router software and added entries to the DHCP table for my X-18 and desktop PC. Since then, I haven't had a single connection issue! Easy fix to an annoying problem.